[Traditional Anglican]

I think to deny that Hell was a part of what he needed to accomplish in effect denies that he not only took our sins, but the full consequences. The one difference being this, Hell could not hold Him in that He was not guilty of personal or original sin (being the "second Adam") thus he could still tell the thief that he would be with him in Paradise. Blessings.

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Traditional Anglican

I think to deny that Hell was a part of what he needed to accomplish in effect denies that he not only took our sins, but the full consequences. The one difference being this, Hell could not hold Him in that He was not guilty of personal or original sin (being the "second Adam") thus he could still tell the thief that he would be with him in Paradise. Blessings.

This belief that Jesus suffered in Hell is a part of the theory that believes Jesus had to pay Satan a ransom for us. As in Satan had power over us until Jesus payed Satan in order to loose us from his power. I think this is just ludicrous, to put it lightly.

I'm saved by the precious blood of Jesus, not by some insane belief that Jesus payed Satan a random for me by being tormented in Hell (this theory cannot be supported by Scripture at all). Hell is a place where spirits are bound until judgment. Jesus was not bound, therefore He was there for another purpose, which has already been stated.

So what is the required payment for sin after all? What saith the Scriptures?

Romans 6:23 (KJV) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

James 1:15 (KJV) Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

and for the finale:

Romans 5:10 (KJV) For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Clearly we are reconciled to God by the death of His Son, our Lord Jesus. Nowhere can I find Scripture to support the notion of our atonement being dependant upon Christ suffereing in Hell. Hell has no power over God! Never has, never will!

Peace and Love,
Stephen

[Kiwi Christian]

Originally Posted by stephanos

This belief that Jesus suffered in Hell is a part of the theory that believes Jesus had to pay Satan a ransom for us. As in Satan had power over us until Jesus payed Satan in order to loose us from his power. I think this is just ludicrous, to put it lightly...

That's an over-generalisation bro, not everyone who believes Christ went to hell holds to this theory, and you're the first one to mention it so far in this thread.

Every Bible student knows that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ follows the pattern of the sin offering practised by Israel in the OT, and that it was always taken and BURNED outside the camp, just like Christ was:

Hebrews 13:11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. 12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Kiwi Christian

That's an over-generalisation bro, not everyone who believes Christ went to hell holds to this theory, and you're the first one to mention it so far in this thread.

Every Bible student knows that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ follows the pattern of the sin offering practised by Israel in the OT, and that it was always taken and BURNED outside the camp, just like Christ was:

Hebrews 13:11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. 12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

This verse does not refer to Christ burning in Hell. This is talking about Him suffering up until His death on the cross (without the gate).

Peace and Love,
Stephen

[Kiwi Christian]

Originally Posted by stephanos

This verse does not refer to Christ burning in Hell. This is talking about Him suffering up until His death on the cross (without the gate).

So if you don't believe Christ went to the fires of hell, where was Peter referring to when he said in Acts 2:31 "He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption."

Is hell in this verse not that place of torment in the heart of the earth?

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Kiwi Christian

So if you don't believe Christ went to the fires of hell, where was Peter referring to when he said in Acts 2:31 "He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption."

Is hell in this verse not that place of torment in the heart of the earth?

I never said He didn't go to Hell (Hell in Scriptures is not only a place where souls/spirits go to be tormented. Some are there in bondage awaiting judgement. Which implies that 'judgement' hasn't happened yet). I said Christ never went there to suffer the torments one might find there or pay ransom to Satan. Christ made atonement for our sins when He died on the Cross, and we recieve salvation by believing in His resurrection. The victory happened on the Cross, not in some hypothetical torment in Hell.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

[Kiwi Christian]

Originally Posted by stephanos

I never said He didn't go to Hell (Hell in Scriptures is not only a place where souls/spirits go to be tormented. Some are there in bondage awaiting judgement. Which implies that 'judgement' hasn't happened yet).

So we agree that Christ went to hell, but now you're trying to say that He went to a part of hell where there is no torment? Can you provide scripture for that? The implication that judgment hasn't happened yet is true for ALL who are in hell (not only the angels of 2 Peter 2:4), because those in hell are judged at the great white throne in Rev 20:

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Originally Posted by stephanos

I said Christ never went there to suffer the torments one might find there or pay ransom to Satan. Christ made atonement for our sins when He died on the Cross, and we recieve salvation by believing in His resurrection. The victory happened on the Cross, not in some hypothetical torment in Hell.

The gospel we preach is the death, BURIAL, and resurrection of Christ, all three elements are important. So, do you believe there was any significance to the burial of Christ in relation to our salvation, apart from the fact that He needed to be buried in order to rise from the dead?

[Josh]

Originally Posted by RND

I agree. Christ did not enter into the nether world to preach to all those long lost souls that departed earth prior to His arrival.

However Josh you mentioned that



Where is paradise and if Christ went there what was the purpose of His ascension later? Also, Christ tells Mary Magdalene after the discovery that the stone was rolled away from the tomb, "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father." If Christ had not yet ascended to the Father where is paradise?

Paradise is Abraham's Bosom, located in Gehenna, along side Hell. The two are sepparated by a "great gulf". Christ had not yet ascended to the Father in Heaven.

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Kiwi Christian

So we agree that Christ went to hell, but now you're trying to say that He went to a part of hell where there is no torment? Can you provide scripture for that? The implication that judgment hasn't happened yet is true for ALL who are in hell (not only the angels of 2 Peter 2:4), because those in hell are judged at the great white throne in Rev 20:

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

The gospel we preach is the death, BURIAL, and resurrection of Christ, all three elements are important. So, do you believe there was any significance to the burial of Christ in relation to our salvation, apart from the fact that He needed to be buried in order to rise from the dead?

Can you provide Scripture to support the notion of Him being tormented in Hell? Don't you see how silly this is. Christ went to Hell (Paradise as Josh just said) to minister to the spirits in bondage. I teach the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ also. The difference is that I don't add anything to it that isn't present in Scripture.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

[Brother Tim]

The suffering of Christ ended on the cross. "It is finished."