[atlas]

Steve,

Dr. Ruckman being "wrong" (your word) on ONE item

People being wrong about this " ONE item " has cost 50,000,000 babies their lives. I guess this " ONE item " is not that big of a deal is it?

Bad ideas have bad consequences. In this case 50,000,000 bad consequences.


This is a pretty big " ONE item " isn't it?

Using AGI figures through 2003, estimating 1,287,000 abortions for 2004-06, and factoring in the possible 3 percent undercount AGI estimates for its own figures, the total number of abortions performed in the U.S. since 1973 equals 48,589,993.

Reported Annual Abortions - 1973-2006


1973: 744,600 (AGI); 615,831 (CDC)

1974: 898,600 (AGI); 763,476 (CDC)

1975: 1,034,200 (AGI); 854,853 (CDC)

1976: 1,179,300 (AGI); 988,267 (CDC)

1977: 1,316,700 (AGI); 1,079,430 (CDC)

1978: 1,409,600 (AGI); 1,157,776 (CDC)

1979: 1,497,700 (AGI); 1,251,921 (CDC)

1980: 1,553,900 (AGI); 1,297,606 (CDC)

1981: 1,577,300 (AGI); 1,300,760 (CDC)

1982: 1,573,900 (AGI); 1,303,980 (CDC)

1983: 1,575,000 (AGI); 1,268,987 (CDC)

1984: 1,577,200 (AGI); 1,333,521 (CDC)

1985: 1,588,600 (AGI); 1,328,570 (CDC)

1986: 1,574,000 AGI); 1,328,112 (CDC)

1987: 1,559,100 (AGI); 1,353,671 (CDC)

1988: 1,590,800 (AGI); 1,371,285 (CDC)

1989: 1,566,900 (AGI); 1,396,658 (CDC)

1990: 1,608,600 (AGI); 1,429,577 (CDC)

1991: 1,556,500 (AGI); 1,388,937 (CDC)

1992: 1,528,900 (AGI); 1,359,146 (CDC)

1993: 1,495,000 (AGI); 1,330,414 (CDC)

1994: 1,423,000 (AGI); 1,267,415 (CDC)

1995: 1,359,400 (AGI); 1,210,883 (CDC)

1996: 1,360,160 (AGI); 1,225,937 (CDC)

1997: 1,335,000 (AGI); 1,186,039 (CDC)

1998: 1,319,000 (AGI); 884,273 * (CDC)

1999: 1,314,800 (AGI); 861,789 * (CDC)

2000: 1,312,990 (AGI); 857,475 ** (CDC)

2001: 1,303,000 (AGI Estimate); 853,485 ** (CDC)

2002: 1,293,000 (AGI Estimate); 854,122 ** (CDC)

2003: 1,287,000 (AGI Estimate); 848,163 *** (CDC)

2004-06: 1,287,000 (NRLC Base Figure)

* Excludes NH, CA, AK, OK
** Excludes NH, CA, AK
*** Excludes CA, NH, WV
Updated: January 2007

This how small the " ONE item " is in real numbers, I thought you'd like to know.


Atlas

[Luke]

Except I bet you can't find a single quote from Ruckman where he says "abortion is not a sin". He doesn't define it as murder. We have gone over this before.

We have heard your opinion atlas.

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by atlas

People being wrong about this " ONE item " has cost 50,000,000 babies their lives. I guess this " ONE item " is not that big of a deal is it?

But he doesn't teach that it is okay, does he? Doesn't he teach that it is wrong -- but differs over what it actually is?

It's not reasonable to hang the evils of abortion around Ruckman's neck. I agree his teaching is wrong, but he's not passing laws or excusing abortions, as far as I have seen.

I have never heard Dr. Ruckman say that it is ok to have an abortion. I have never heard him endorse abortion. I have never heard him encourage anyone to have an abortion.
He doesn't believe it is murder, but he doesn't believe it is acceptable behavior either - yes it is a sin, even if (according to his definition) it is not murder.

How many souls were lost because Paul didn't obey the Lord about not going to Jerusalem?
Shall we put him in the hall of shame?

II Sam. 12:14 Nathan told David that he had given great occasion to the enemies of God to blaspheme. How many souls went to hell because of David's sin?

Shall we put David in the hall of shame also?

What about Jacob - the old scoundrel?

Your vicious, unwarranted attack on the basis of semantics is inconsistent with Scripture. If your categorization of Dr. Ruckman is warranted, we will have to toss out all of the saints in both Testaments as well.

PS - YOU NEVER ANSWERED MY QUESTION.

IF Dr. Ruckman is wrong on this one doctrine, do we completely dismiss everything he teaches as false? It is quite obvious that Benny Hinn, Paula White, Paul Krouse, Jesse Duplantis, et. al are false prophets - 99% of what they teach is utterly false.

(Don't worry - I am not holding my breath waiting for you to answer....)

[Here Am I]

Hmm. Interesting debate here.

Let me get this right...one preacher doesn't teach that abortion is a sin, so he's now responsible for millions of babies being aborted?

I don't think that the women who have had abortions for the last 25 years all listened to Bro. Ruckman's preaching....

Originally Posted by atlas

Well lets add one more to the list.
Dr. Peter S. Ruckman

No, let's not. Brother Atlas, you're now actually hijacking threads with this anti-Ruckman stuff; and I know that you have loved and defended him. But every thread is not a "Ruckman/abortion" thread.

I wonder if he always votes Pro Choice?

The only people that I know he's voted for were George Wallace and Ronald Reagan. Well, maybe not even Reagan: he might have voted for Jack Fellure. Is that "pro-choice?"

C'mon, dear brother, you've made your point.

[Just_A_Thought]

Some people are decieved like the Jehovah's Witnesses or the Mormons. I personally do not believe these TV preachers are deceived. I think they are after the "Almighty Dollar". Sadly, they make a fortune telling their lies and helping to deceive followers helping to send their soul straight to Hell.

[Jeremy]

Originally Posted by Luke

His ministry is violent. The unholy spirit within him has told him to kick old ladies in the face, punch people in the stomach, and leg drop men and women.
Todd Bentley SERVES SATAN and KNOWS IT.
I used to make this hand symbol at rock concerts. I didn't know what it meant when I did it. I thought it was a "rock salute". It's saluting all right. Saluting the devil.

How can people stand there and take the abuse. Does turn the other cheek apply here? I couldn't.
These People only give true christians a black eye.(not Literal)
Those hand gestures are rock salutes,but, i have heard from some that they are a peace symbol. Sure they are,and i have a bridge to sell you.
When viewing the other videos you posted with Brown,I honestly thought he looked Dillusional.
Even though i didn't say, i will add Bob Larson in the Hall of Shame. Say what you will but, he is a Hoax, and i have never seen or heard any other preachers perform or mention exorcisms except for Catholics, and i have never sat under a preacher who did that either,IMHO.
There ya go.

[George]

Originally Posted by atlas

Well lets add one more to the list.

Dr. Peter S. Ruckman

I wonder if he always votes Pro Choice?

50,000,000 babies murdered and counting!!!!

Atlas

Aloha brother Atlas,

Let's see if I can get this straight.

Brother Peter Ruckman does not believe what you believe about when a soul begins - so, conversely he MUST APPROVE OF ABORTION!

Do you realize what you are saying? Think about it for a minute brother (meditate on it). Can you produce one statement, by Ruckman, where he APPROVES of abortion (Just one?)? Can you produce one statement where he says that abortion is NOT WRONG? Can you produce one statement where he says abortion is NOT A SIN?

The man believes that a baby ("Fruit") within the womb does not become a living soul until he/she receives his/her spirit at birth! I "think" that you believe that from the moment of conception, a baby within the womb possesses both a spirit and a soul. (Have I stated it correctly?)

Where does believing what brother Ruckman believes about the beginning of a soul make him someone who APPROVES of abortion? Hmmm? Don't MIX the issues.

The one issue is: WHEN DOES THE SOUL BEGIN? {An issue that has been argued and debated by "theologians" and genuine Bible believers for centuries - and never "settled" I might add. An issue where you and brother Ruckman disagree.}

The other issue is: WHO APPROVES OF ABORTION? You have stated unequivocally that: "I still wonder if he votes pro choice? He says abortion is not murder. 50,000,000 babies murdered and counting!!!!" So, from your statement, I gather that you must believe that Brother Peter Ruckman APPROVES of abortion - even though I know for a fact (see my previous testimony) that he DOES NOT, and I have testified to that fact!

Just because brother Peter Ruckman doesn't agree with you as to when the soul begins does NOT make him PRO-CHOICE! You couldn't prove your allegations if your life depended on it.

You and brother Ruckman have a difference of opinion (differing "convictions") about when the soul begins. I have seen NO SCRIPTURES coming from you to support your "position", whereas I can produce (and will when I have the time) at least a dozen Scriptures to support brother Ruckman's position.

Here is something for you to check out:

Find me one verse out of the approximately 498 verses on and about the soul, where it demonstrates that a babe within a womb possesses a soul (just one). Before I undertook this Post I reviewed all 498 verses with the word soul (souls) in them (thanks to SwordSearcher!) - Every place where the word soul (or souls) shows up in the Bible is always referring to someone who has already been born and is alive and existing in the flesh {And who, by the way, also possesses a “spirit”, a heart, a mind, and a conscience}. I cannot find a single verse where the word soul is applied to an unborn child {Check it out. Run the verses, don’t take my word for it.}

IF the Bible is its own best dictionary, then HOW the word soul (souls) is used (and WHAT the word soul (souls) describes) should define what a soul is – shouldn’t it? Then why isn’t there one verse in the entire Bible where the word “soul” is used to describe a baby within the womb?

I have been very careful not to call you names, or to reprove or rebuke you, because I value you as a fellow brother in Christ, but I feel I must warn you – be very careful WHO you ACCUSE of sin, if you cannot substantiate your charges.

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Jeremy

How can people stand there and take the abuse. Does turn the other cheek apply here? I couldn't.
These People only give true christians a black eye.(not Literal)
Those hand gestures are rock salutes,but, i have heard from some that they are a peace symbol. Sure they are,and i have a bridge to sell you.
When viewing the other videos you posted with Brown,I honestly thought he looked Dillusional.
Even though i didn't say, i will add Bob Larson in the Hall of Shame. Say what you will but, he is a Hoax, and i have never seen or heard any other preachers perform or mention exorcisms except for Catholics, and i have never sat under a preacher who did that either,IMHO.
There ya go.

Matthew 7:22-23 (KJV) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Coincidence that the Catholics (and maybe some Hall of Shamers, lol) are the ones casting out devils?

Peace and Love,
Stephen