[stephanos]

Originally Posted by George

Aloha brother Scott,

WHO is speaking – Jesus Christ {before His death, burial, & resurrection – before the establishment of the church.}

WHO is he speaking to – {His Jewish disciples - before His death, burial, & resurrection & before the establishment of the church.}

WHAT is he talking about – {“the mysteries of the Kingdom of God” – NOT necessarily church doctrine for Christians.}

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Please be careful in calling the Words of Jesus Christ as not for Christians.

EDIT: I just wanted to add that I indeed loved the original post. I'm using it to help my Mennonite brothers see the errors of Armenianism (they are staunch Armenians). I have never been Armenian or Calvanist, since to me this is like saying "I follow Paul/Apollos/foobarbaz etc...". I want to show them the truth of Eternal Security. They struggle with it, since they've been taught differently their whole lives. Anything you can offer me to help witness to them on this subject is SO welcomed.

for Jesus' sake,
Stephen

[chette777]

Stephen,

All the Bible is for us Christians. But not all of it is written to us Christians.

[peopleoftheway]

George brother, very instructive post, I think you have said everything I wished to say and other brothers wished to say on the subject but could not, all Glory to God for that reason.
I pray that Scott, you take George's post in love and instruction and "drop" the teaching that you still cling to from the past and let the LORD show you "truth" through his chosen vessels in HIS time.
I have questions, and I always will but I prayed on them and in the LORDS time He revealed some, some I shall not understand until I stand before Him in all his Glory and I am content with that.

Psalm 26:1,2
Judge me, O LORD; for I have walked in mine integrity: I have trusted also in the LORD; therefore I shall not slide.
Examine me, O LORD, and prove me; try my reins and my heart.

Originally Posted by chette777

Stephen,

All the Bible is for us Christians. But not all of it is written to us Christians.

Truth!

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by chette777

Stephen,

All the Bible is for us Christians. But not all of it is written to us Christians.

I don't think a single book of the NT is addressed to 'Christians'. But I believe with absolute certainty that every book of the NT was and is for those that are Christians, or to Jews that the author wishes to expound the truth of Christianity to (I think Hebrews is the only book like this, the others are all written to those that have biblical faith in Jesus Christ, aka Christians).

And I wanted to add that the only reason I commented is becuase George said that not all Scripture is for doctrine (I've heard you say that about Hebrews yourself). The Scriptures say differently.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

[atlas]

Stephanos,

(I think Hebrews is the only book like this, the others are all written to those that have biblical faith in Jesus Christ, aka Christians).

Who do you think the book of James was written to my friend?

James 1:1

James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Well if you are one of the 12 Jewish tribes it's for you not it's not for you. Now we can learn from the book of James, we can use it for many things. It is not wrote for non Jews to build doctrine.

Atlas

[peopleoftheway]

2nd Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Originally Posted by stephanos

I don't think a single book of the NT is addressed to 'Christians'.

Romans 1:7
To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corintians 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

2 Corinthians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

Galatians 1:2
And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:

Ephesians 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Philippians 1:1
Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

Colossians 1:2
To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1st Thessalonians 1:1
Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2nd Thessalonians 1:1
Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ

Jude 1:1
Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

[George]

Stephen,

It appears to me that you are "back at it AGAIN"! {"Putting words in other people's mouth's"}. I will demonstrate:

Originally Posted by George:

Aloha brother Scott,
WHO is speaking – Jesus Christ {before His death, burial, & resurrection – before the establishment of the church.}

WHO is he speaking to – {His Jewish disciples - before His death, burial, & resurrection & before the establishment of the church.}

WHAT is he talking about – {“the mysteries of the Kingdom of God” – NOT necessarily church doctrine for Christians.}

Post #30 > Stephens Response:

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Please be careful in calling the Words of Jesus Christ as not for Christians.

EDIT: I just wanted to add that I indeed loved the original post. I'm using it to help my Mennonite brothers see the errors of Armenianism (they are staunch Armenians). I have never been Armenian or Calvanist, since to me this is like saying "I follow Paul/Apollos/foobarbaz etc...". I want to show them the truth of Eternal Security. They struggle with it, since they've been taught differently their whole lives. Anything you can offer me to help witness to them on this subject is SO welcomed.

NOTICE: I never said: "the Words of Jesus Christ as NOT for Christians." READ What I said!:

"WHAT is he talking about – "the mysteries of the Kingdom" of God – NOT necessarily church doctrine for Christians."

I try to be extremely "careful" about what I say (or write), but you have been CARELESS for putting words in my mouth that I never said (or wrote). I ask myself - WHY does a person do this? Can you not read? I said that "the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven are NOT necessarily "CHURCH DOCTRINE" for Christians! Where do you get: "the Words of Jesus Christ as NOT for Christians."? You have twisted my words out of context, and then have ADDED to them, and have attempted to make them say something that I never intended!

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - you have a "problem" my friend. You have a "problem" with DISCERNMENT; you have a "problem" with "UNDERSTANDING"; and you have a "problem" with WISDOM. I have never even "intimated" (ever) that our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ's words are NOT for Christians -All of His words are FOR us! But, NOT ALL OF HIS WORDS (Spoken to His Jewish Disciples; BEFORE his death, burial, and resurrection; about the "kingdom of heaven") - are CHURCH "DOCTRINE ". What could be more clear? [Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.]

And then in your follow up Post #33:

Originally Posted by stephanos

I don't think a single book of the NT is addressed to 'Christians'. But I believe with absolute certainty that every book of the NT was and is for those that are Christians, or to Jews that the author wishes to expound the truth of Christianity to (I think Hebrews is the only book like this, the others are all written to those that have biblical faith in Jesus Christ, aka Christians).

Your statement: "I don't think a single book of the NT is addressed to 'Christians'". Are you serious? Have you never read the Apostle Paul's introductions in his Epistles? If they weren't addressed to Christians (exclusively) - WHO in the world were they (Paul's Epistles) addressed to? When you said: "I don't think" - you were absolutely right! That's your "problem", you don't look to the Holy Spirit for understanding, instead you are relying on your own "intellect" for answers - and you end up tripping yourself up, and twisting other people's words out of context in the process.

And I wanted to add that the only reason I commented is because George said that not all Scripture is for doctrine (I've heard you say that about Hebrews yourself). The Scriptures say differently.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

We now come to the most egregious misstatement on your part when (supposedly) quoting me: "the only reason I commented is because George said that not all Scripture is for doctrine"! I SAID NO SUCH THING! WHY do you "insist" on twisting people's words out of context; and then adding to them; and making them say something other than that which was originally intended? Is this a "gift" of yours? You are so "out of order", that I am practically speechless (but not quite ).

The Holy Bible states:
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

In the face of this clear Bible testimony, do you think that I would proclaim: "not all Scripture is for doctrine"! Have you not read at least some of the 300 posts that I have made on this Forum? Or is it that you cannot "help yourself"? I have very little patience with someone who cannot or will not receive "instruction"; and even less patience with someone who deliberately takes my words out of context; twists and wrests them; and then adds to them; and makes them say something I never said, or intended to say!

I would advise you to READ WHAT I SAID (in each instance), and then READ WHAT YOU SAID I SAID - and if you cannot see the "DIFFERENCE", then there is nothing that I or anyone else on this Forum can do to help you.

[Renee]

Staphanos,

And I wanted to add that the only reason I commented is becuase George said that not all Scripture is for doctrine (I've heard you say that about Hebrews yourself). The Scriptures say differently

.

As George's wife I know he has never said the above.He has many times quoted:

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

If the only reason you commented is because by your twisting and wresting you have once more made George say something (in your mind and perhaps in your deceitful heart) that he does not believe and never said, then I in all fairness and "peace and love" for Scott humbly ask you to butt out. Scott needs help in understanding THE THINGS OF THE LORD, he does not need to have the work that Our Lord wants to work in him undermined by your unbelief in His words.

You have done unrighteously by many of us.

I came out of Catholicism and the baggage I brought with me when I got saved still at times plague me. Scott has a lot of baggage to put behind him, please let the Lord's words work on him, and let him only desire the sincere milk of the word.

Scott is a babe in Christ:

Hebrews 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

Perhaps you too come under this scripture?

1 Peter 2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

We are all growing in the Lord, some of us still on milk, some on ground fruits and vegtables, and some on steak. Some of us chokeing on steak!

1 Timothy 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

This may sound harsh and unloving to you Staph, but Scott may be trying to put behind him the very things you are spouting, if the Lord wants him to leave them behind, who are you to use Satan's devices to twart his growth?

2 Corinthians 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

I do not claim to know Satan's devices, but it sure is wrong to take a mans truth received from the studying of the bible and to twist and wrest it and make it say something else. (In fact the complete opposite!) What can we expect from men though when the smartest, schooled men dare to twist and wrest Our Almight God's Words!

Peace and Love,
Stephen

Our God is so holy that it took the death of His Son, to show His love for us.
Staph, there can be no peace untill you rest in God's words:

2 Peter 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Perhaps I have no right to ask this of you, because Diligent is keeping you on, but this is getting rather tiresome. Everytime there is a new babe or a new poster that may be faltering or weak, you embolden them and cause them to think, "maybe I am right". It is better to err on the side of the Lord then to give way to false doctrine and untruths.

It is better to believe in eternal Salvation, and wake up in heaven then to not believe in it and wake up in hell.

I guess I have said enough, as you can tell, you truly do irk me.

Aloha, Renee

[Renee]

Hi Atlas,

Welcome back Arlas! It has been quite a while, I pray that it was not illness that has kept you away.

I had to go back and reread your post before I welcomed you back, and I welcome you back with an open heart and look forward to more post from you.

Aloha,
Renee

[chette777]

Stephen,

Most assuredly if a scripture teaches doctrine it may be used as correction, instruction in righteousness, or to reproof. but there are some scriptures that do not teach a doctrine. But can be used for correction , reproof, and instruction in righteousness.

wouldn't you agree?

The Bible is for Christians and all we have need of for life and godliness can be found in it's pages. but not all the Books of the Bible are written to Christians specifically for doctrine. While yet those same books written to the Jews can be used to support Christian doctrine if they agree with Paul's teaching on the same subject.

some of the scriptures are just for learning (instruction in righteousnes), or correction (not just of doctrine but of life and practice), reproof (for those who would make false statements).

All are inspired of God. but they have different duties doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction.