[George]

Rejection of God's Words = EVIL

[Rejection of the holy words of God always carries a price]

I am convinced that when a person (lost or saved ) chooses to deliberately reject, go against, turn away from, or ignore God’s words that there is a spiritual operation that takes place within that person that is as sure as the law of gravity or the two universal laws of Thermodynamics. The deliberate rejection or turning away from the holy words of God perversely affects our Heart, Conscience, & Mind (Our Faculties), which in turn adversely affects our Body, Soul, & Spirit (Our Substance). And no one (saved or lost) can anymore avoid the consequences of their behavior than they can avoid getting hurt (or killed) after falling off a cliff. [Galatians 6:7]

The following list is only a partial exposition of what happens to a person's "faculties" (man or woman – lost or saved ) when they deliberately choose to reject; or go against; or turn away from; or ignore God’s words:

THE HEART
Proverbs 4:23 Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.

• Is hardened (John 12:40)
• Is darkened (Romans 1:21)
• Is blind (Ephesians 4:18)

∆ Becomes EVIL (Hebrews 3:12)


THE CONSCIENCE
Acts 24:16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men.

• Is defiled (Titus 1:15)
• Is seared (1Timothy 4:2)

∆ Becomes EVIL (Hebrews 10:22)


THE MIND
[Ezekiel 11:5 And the Spirit of the LORD fell upon me, and said unto me, Speak; Thus saith the LORD; Thus have ye said, O house of Israel: for I know the things that come into your mind, every one of them.]

• Becomes corrupt (2 Corinthians 11:3; 1 Timothy 6:5; 2 Timothy 3:8)
• Is blinded (2 Corinthians 3:14; 2 Corinthians 4:4)
• Becomes carnal (Romans 8:6-7)
• Is alienated (Colossians 1:21)
• Becomes defiled (Titus 1:15)
• Becomes reprobate (Romans 1:28; 2 Timothy 3:8)

∆ Becomes EVIL (Acts 14:2)


CONCLUSION: (Rejection of God’s Words = EVIL!)

If you mess with God’s words – God messes with your mind! {Lost or Saved}

[Biblestudent]

I am surprised that even a saved person, after being saved constantly rejects God's Word afterwards, can become "evil". Thanks for posting that, (Bro.) George!

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by George

If you mess with God’s words – God messes with your mind! {Lost or Saved}

I don't believe God "messes" with your mind. By quenching the Holy Spirit you give place to the devil and feed your lusts. God is not the author of confusion or corruption.

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by Jeff

I don't believe God "messes" with your mind. By quenching the Holy Spirit you give place to the devil and feed your lusts. God is not the author of confusion or corruption.

Maybe the word "mess" isn't the most apt, but the Bible clearly says God "gives" men over to a "reprobate mind."

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

[George]

Originally Posted by Jeff

I don't believe God "messes" with your mind. By quenching the Holy Spirit you give place to the devil and feed your lusts. God is not the author of confusion or corruption.

"I don't believe God "messes" with your mind."

Believe what you want - It's your "right" ("civil" that is).

First off let's dispense with the heart: Our hearts cannot become "corrupt", since they are by nature already "corrupt".

Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

Raise seven children over a period of nearly 40 years and you will know what I am talking about! "Fellowship" with the "brethren" for 50 years and it becomes obvious: There is something terribly wrong with our hearts - everyone's heart, (lost or saved - no exceptions!).

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

With the exception of the Lord Jesus Christ do you know of any men in the Bible that were "exempt" from the above? Have you ever met anybody in your life that is "exempt" from this most basic of truths? Am I exempt? - Are you exempt?


Now on to what I have claimed: You may not like my "choice of words [mess]" - but the "Truth" is God directly blinds men (in both their minds & their hearts) when they reject His revelation (whether it be the testimony of the creation or His Holy words.)

Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Please notice the "progression" (Progress?) of sin: First the lust of the heart (you got that right), since all sin begin in the heart - but where does it lead?

God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; {That's Humanism brother - in all of its pride and earthly "glory").

Now if you don't "think" that isn't "messing" with someone's mind, then what is it? God "messes up" their minds so bad that they become "reprobate"! You may not like it, it may not fit your "concept" of a "loving" God, but there it is! If you want to see an example of what the Scriptures are talking about just go to any college campus in the U.S.A. and talk to the "Professors" or go to practically any any Christian College or Seminary and talk with the Hebrew and Greek Instructors and you will know what God is talking about (brilliant "intellects" - destitute of the "Truth".)

Now here is the "key" to understanding what can happen to a Christian (any Christian - man or woman), if they aren't very careful about these matters, i.e. Humanism and its pernicious influence in today's world:

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.


NOTE: Paul "feared" that the brethren (Christians i.e saved people) might be "beguiled" by the "serpent" (Satan - the Devil) through his "subtilty" and that their minds should become "corrupted" - just like Eve's was in the Garden of Eden! (My point is: That Humanism is so subtle that most Christians aren't even aware of it, and yet it has been manifesting itself among God's people for some time now. The fact is that a Christian's mind can become "corrupted" and the route that Satan has taken for at least the last four hundred years is through "education" (Schools, Colleges, Universities, Seminaries, etc., etc.). The "leaven" of Humanism then trickles down into every facet of our culture (government, schools K-12, media, family, and churches).

"God is not the author of confusion or corruption."

There you go again brother - putting words in my mouth again! Read what I said - not what you think I "mean". I never said that God is the author of confusion, never, no not once! I never intimated it either.

2 Samuel 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

1Chronicles 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

Now which is it? A Humanist will say - See there's an "error" in the Bible! A real Bible believer will say: I see, sometimes God uses Satan to fulfill his will! God may allow Satan to "mess" with us to accomplish an end (not always a "pleasant" end) that He has in mind.

God allowed sin to enter the Universe (the fall of Lucifer i.e. Satan), but He was not the author of it; He allowed Adam and Eve to sin (the fall in the Garden of Eden, but again He was not responsible for it; over and over again in the Bible God has given people choices, but He is not responsible for their sins - He is not the author of confusion, and what I wrote was not "confusing". You may not "like" it; you may "disagree" with it; and you may "believe" that it's not true, but the onus is on you to prove that I am in error.

Humanism is "confusion" at its worst (just talk to a Psychiatrist or Psychologist if you want to see it in operation - on second thought - don't!)

[Jeff]

God gives us over to a reprobate mind, NOT God gives us a reprobate mind.

It doesn't do God any honor to suggest that He causes our corruption. You can't attribute to Him what Satan and ourselves do. Treat God's Word with at least the same respect that you demand others treat your words with.

[George]

Originally Posted by Jeff

God gives us over to a reprobate mind, NOT God gives us a reprobate mind.

It doesn't do God any honor to suggest that He causes our corruption. You can't attribute to Him what Satan and ourselves do. Treat God's Word with at least the same respect that you demand others treat your words with.

All underlines in Jeff's post are mine - George

George's quote:

God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; {That's Humanism brother - in all of its pride and earthly "glory").

Now if you don't "think" that isn't "messing" with someone's mind, then what is it? God "messes up" their minds so bad that they become "reprobate"!

What is your problem? Can't you quote my words accurately, just once? Over and over in your posts you continually mis-quote or misconstrue what I say to fit whatever "private interpretation" or whatever point you want to make.

I DID NOT SAY: "God gives us a reprobate mind." Can you not SEE the difference? God does NOT GIVE them a reprobate mind - that would be attributing evil to God (which I emphatically did NOT DO). God allows Satan to blind them and that "messes up" their minds so they cannot discern between good & evil; so they cannot understand the "truth"; and so they are destitute of spiritual wisdom so they: "do those things which are not convenient".

2 Corinthians 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Did God blind them directly? No! But did God allow Satan to carry out His will by allowing Satan to blind their minds? You bet He did!
I thought when I supplied the two following verses in my last post that you would understand how God operates (at least sometimes). And why I said what I said - but I guess I'll have to explain:

2 Samuel 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

1Chronicles 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

1 Chronicles 21:7 And God was displeased with this thing; therefore he smote Israel.

HOW did God "move" David against Israel? Did God, Himself, move David to number the children of Israel? Of course not (that would be "suggesting" that God were directly responsible for David's sin - something you are accusing me of.) Then what did God do? He allowed Satan to "provoke" David to number Israel. Wherefore - because God was angry with Israel. Was God unjust? He didn't "cause" David to number Israel, but He allowed Satan to cause David to sin in numbering Israel - and in the end accomplished His (God's) will in regards to His anger towards Israel. Is God unjust because of this? I trow not! Now you may not like this; you may not believe it; and you may not accept it, but God often allows Satan to "provoke", "tempt", or "prove" (test/try, etc.) His people. Remember Job?

"It doesn't do God any honor to suggest that He causes our corruption. You can't attribute to Him what Satan and ourselves do. Treat God's Word with at least the same respect that you demand others treat your words with."

It doesn't do any good to keep making false accusations when you can not prove them. IF I were guilty of what you accuse me of, I would be sinning. BUT, I NEVER "SUGGESTED", NO NOT ONCE, that God causes our corruption. Once again you are trying to put words in my mouth - and I will not let you get away with it. (Attributing sin to a child of God, when he is innocent is not a "just" thing to do - remember, that's what Job's friends did). I never once "attributed to Him what Satan and ourselves do".

I have always treated God's words with respect for over 40 years and I will not sit by and let you malign me with "malicious charges" and "libelous accusations" that you couldn't prove if your life depended on it.

Somewheres along the line I must have "ruffled your feathers" - I don't "demand" anything from you (or any body else on this Forum). Don't just carelessly fling out your accusations - produce the "demands". Where are they? However, now that you have brought it up; it would be nice if you could, just once, "Judge Righteous Judgment" instead of making unfounded and unwarranted accusations against a fellow Christian.

If you cannot fairly "criticize" my posts; and if you cannot cease from false accusations, allegations, etc.; and if you cannot stop twisting my words and taking them out of context to mean whatever you want them to mean; and if can not stop putting words in my mouth when I haven't said them - I will not answer any more of your criticisms. You've got a problem, and it's obvious that I can't "fix it."

[Jeff]

"God messes up their minds..." Perhaps you don't understand what the term "messes up" means because, ironically, you seem to understand that God allows Satan to do it for His purposes and that God Himself is not responsible for the corruption of our minds. I was simply pointing that out as I thought it could be misconstrued.

I apologize if I missed something else pertinent that you wrote, but frankly I don't have the time or patience to continue reading your posts.

George, I'm done with you. You treat people with contempt, you make false accusations about them while accusing them of making false accusations against you. I addressed that on another thread, you never did answer the false charges you made against me.

Is this the kind of stuff you learn from Ruckman? It's another reason I will not have anything to do with that man or, from now on, you.

Where does your arrogance and pride come from? What is your problem? Hurl all the insults you want now, I'm done.

[pbiwolski]

As soon as you mention Ruckman (again and again for some reason), up pops his smiling face in an avatar! He's smiling at you, Jeff, saying "Why are you bringing me into this thread too. I didn't do anything wrong this time, did I?"

[George]

Originally Posted by pbiwolski

As soon as you mention Ruckman (again and again for some reason), up pops his smiling face in an avatar! He's smiling at you, Jeff, saying "Why are you bringing me into this thread too. I didn't do anything wrong this time, did I?"

Thanks brother,

It's so hard for Jeff to stay on point. It's much easier to twist words; make accusations; hurl insults; and blame everyone else for his failure to think clearly.

This man (by his own admission) has never read anything by brother Peter Ruckman; he has never heard him preach or teach; and he has never met him - and yet he "rejects" him out of hand based on the second hand testimony of a couple of brothers on this Forum. Does he have the "right" (civil) to do this? Absolutely! But is he RIGHT in judging in this matter? Absolutely NOT! John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

On the other hand, I am not appointed to straighten him out; or to "make" him obey the scriptures; or to somehow give him spiritual understanding. But when all he can do is engage destructive criticism of me; or my attempts at edification; or brother Ruckman (who he admits that he doesn't know); then it becomes another matter (I shall have more to say on this subject later).

I believe that I hit a "nerve" with brother Jeff, when it comes to my comments on Humanism and the only thing that I have to say to him is: "If the shoe fits - wear it" (I've forgotten which "verse" that is. )

Why would Jeff admit that he has never read or looked into Humanism or the Humanist Manifestos I, II, & III - if, as I claim, Humanism is the vehicle, the DEVICE that Satan has used and is using to convert or persuade the whole world to his point of view. 2 Corinthians 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

Why would anyone be so obtuse as to not want to know what "devices" Satan is using today to subvert the whole world? If Humanism isn't what I say it is - then prove me wrong. But if it is a perverse and destructive "device" of Satan, then we ought to know about it- not bury our heads in the sand!

But on the other hand, if we have all gone to the government's Humanist schools - K-12 and possibly on to the Humanist Colleges & Universities (and the so-called "Christian" schools today are full of Humanistic teachings); and if we are bomb-barded every minute of the day through the "media" (print, radio, TV, etc.)which is run by Humanists; and if our government (Executive, Legislative, and JUDICIAL) is also being run by Humanists, who are implementing the Humanist agenda - why would anyone in their right mind not think that we ourselves "might be" at least slightly affected (Infected?) by this pernicious "belief system"?

Just a glance at the "fare" on TV will prove my point: No one is genuinely "funny" anymore (Not like Red Skelton; Jack Benny; Danny Kaye; or the rest of the "old time" comedians). Today's comedians are either just downright mean or just plainly "dirty", "filthy", and "perverted" (Red Skelton commented on this trend years ago. What happened? - Humanism!). And the same holds true for the rest of TV fare. It's all mean, demeaning, and cruel; or filled with sexual content, filthy language, and nasty people! (What happened to "Family" shows? - Humanism!)

Again, before Jeff jumps on me for watching TV "fare" - My wife and I have not viewed TV "fare" for nearly all of the 47 years we have been married. You can imagine our surprise when two years ago we hooked up to cable. I was "blown away" by the change in the "content" of TV from what I knew as a teenager in the 1950's! I was like "Rip Van Winkle" waking up in a new and different world!

I wouldn't watch the "garbage" on TV - not for all the tea in China. Why, even the commercials are filled with "sexual innuendo" (not to mention being - juvenile; asinine; childish; sexist-against men; mean; and just plain stupid).

How was this accomplished in my life time? - Humanism! We have gone from "Leave it to Beaver" to "Sex in the City" and from "Father knows best" to all of those shows where the father is a "bumbling idiot", who needs to be straightened out by his "know-it-all" wife or his "hip" kids, who are always so much smarter than he is. How did this occur - Humanism!

I will have more to say about Humanism later. Again thanks for pointing out the failure on the part of Jeff to avoid, the opportunity to "pile on" to brother Ruckman by blaming him for my possible failures; faults; and shortcomings - what a guy!. (Have a "nice" day.