[George]

Originally Posted by Paladin54

Is all the Bible prophecy? I think not, even though the whole Bible is the special revelation of Jesus Christ.

So if I take words out of...say Joshua, my name will be taken out of the book of life?

Aloha brother,

{A caveat: This advise is not meant to be a criticism or in any way a put down of you or your desire to know the "Truth". You have a "head start" on me since I wasn't saved until I turned 18 (1958) and didn't really "get into" the Bible until 10 years later - 1968}

I admire your desire to know the "Truth", and the questions that you ask demonstrate that. However, at this point in time, it appears to me that you need to get a "better handle" on: "the manifold wisdom of God" and "all the council of God". [Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,] - [Acts 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.]
For instance: Not all "prophecy" is "foretelling" i.e. the future. Much of it is "forthtelling" i.e. God speaking directly through a Jewish prophet to His people (Israel) and instructing them or warning them or, at times, royally "chewing them out".

There are mainly 3 "KEYS" in the Bible for learning these things:

1. First and foremost - The Holy Spirit.
You can obtain Bible knowledge from men (a school, a church, the family, etc.) and you can even get some discernment from these sources. BUT, true Biblical Understanding and Wisdom comes from God only. Having had 7 children I learned (over time) that I cannot give my children, or anyone else for that matter, the understanding and wisdom that God has given me. I can share it with them (and others), but its up to them to seek out God as to whether the things that I say are true. ["These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." Acts 17:11]

2. Secondly you must learn to - Rightly Divide.
The first 10 years of my Christian life I bounced around from "pillar to post" because I had no idea on how to "rightly divide" the word of God (and no one taught me). That simply means you have to be able to discern between the Jew; the Gentile; and the Church. God has divisions in His Holy Scriptures and a Dispensational study is very helpful in understanding these divisions. (A word of caution here: We Christians tend to come on to a "truth" and some times "run off into the sunset" with it, or get on a "Hobby Horse" and "ride it to death". And sometimes we have zeal - BUT, "not according to knowledge".) Be prudent and circumspect in your studies - Remember that the Bible is not like a "text book". God has written It in such a way that you have to search for the "Truth"..

3. Thirdly, you must be especially aware of the JEWS {Hebrews} in God's plan of the ages.
Of the 66 Books in the Bible, at least 64 have been written by Jews (Luke possibly being the only exception) Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Over the years I have learned that:

Almost all False Teaching & Doctrine comes from:

1. Commandments given exclusively to the Jews and expropriated by a church; a cult; or an individual.
2. Or Promises of God given exclusively to the Jews and expropriated by a church; a cult; or an individual.
3. Or Prophecies concerning only the Jews and expropriated by a church; a cult; or an individual.

If you will remember these things in your study and be like the wise old owl and say: WHO said that? or WHO was he speaking to? or WHO should follow & obey? or WHO does this apply to or WHO is this written to? many problems in the understanding of the Scriptures disappear.

Try to remember that all Scripture has three applications:
1. Historical
2. Spiritual
3. Doctrinal

There's a lot more to the study of the Bible, but I don't have the space here to share it with you. Brandon's Swordsearcher Program is an almost indispensable tool and has been a terrific aid in my studies. (I have been using a copy of his program since around 1996).

A word of warning. Whoever you learn from - always check him out. Whatever school you may go to - always check them out. A study of church history reveals that almost all of the false doctrine that has entered the churches throughout history has entered by the "intelligentsia" i.e. the "scholars" (the nerds & pin-heads); and the church leadership i.e. elders & pastors (the "big shots".)

A fact of 1900+ years of church history: Once a church, a school, or a man turns their back on God's word - God eventually turns His back on them and they become reprobate and then apostate!

• Every church established from 33 A.D. up to 1900 has apostatized (without one exception).
• Almost all of those churches have simply disappeared.
• All of the few churches that have remained until today (Roman Catholic; Eastern Orthodox; etc,) - are false and counterfeit
• Apostasy always (without exception) began with the church “leadership”.
• Most of the church “leadership” came from the “intelligentsia” or the “educated” class.
• Most of the ordinary Christians blindly followed the church “leaders”.
• Concerned Christians were powerless to stop a church from going apostate.
∆ NO CHURCH HAS EVER RECOVERED FROM APOSTASY!

[This also holds true for every so-called “Christian” Organization created by men.]

No amount of rules, regulations, ordinances, edicts, restrictions, or laws have ever been able to prevent Apostasy. And no amount of compromise can bring a church back from it.

May God bless you in your study of His Holy word and pursuit of the "Truth".

George

[pbiwolski]

Originally Posted by Paladin54

My question flat out is: isn't "The book of THIS prophecy" talking about Revelation?

I'm with you Paladin54.

John introduces his last book as
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass...who bare record of the things which he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein:...

He closes the book as you have quoted,
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith,...

It seems a "no-brainer" that upon comparison the introduction and conclusion are referencing the same thing. If the end refers to the whole Book, then the first three verse do as well. But they cannot, for Rev. 1:19 says,
Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
John is referring only to the things that he wrote in this particular book.

[pbiwolski]

But lets go deeper.

Did he say that God would take away his name out of the book of life as you quoted in post #1??? Or did he say his part?
Is there a difference?
(This may help some understand why accusing all Bible correctors of being lost is not necessarily true.)

[Paladin54]

Wow, thank you Brothers. I can't put into words my gratitude.

Originally Posted by pbiwolski

It seems a "no-brainer" that upon comparison the introduction and conclusion are referencing the same thing. If the end refers to the whole Book, then the first three verse do as well. But they cannot, for Rev. 1:19 says,
Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
John is referring only to the things that he wrote in this particular book.

If you think it is only Revelations that God is talking about, what about the words taken out of Revelations as Diligent pointed out?

There is prophecy through out the entire Bible. All of the Bible is God breathed. Why would we ever want to defend changing words, taking out words of any portion of the Bible?

Depending upon the context, the term prophecy can refer to all of the Bible, not just a particular portion or book (such as Revelation).

2 Peter 1:19-21 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

God doesn't want man to add to, take away from, change, twist or wrest any part of Scripture.

[pbiwolski]

Originally Posted by Beth

If you think it is only Revelations that God is talking about, what about the words taken out of Revelations as Diligent pointed out?

Was he not showing words that Westcott and Hort removed in their text? Maybe I missed his point.

Originally Posted by Beth

Why would we ever want to defend changing words, taking out words of any portion of the Bible?

Where do you get the idea that we're defending changing the text of scripture, or making allowances for some to do it? Reread the start of this thread. The question was in reference to what John was talking about at the close of his book. I think I addressed clearly why I believe that John was referring only to the book that he was writing.

I was in no way suggesting that "you can pick and choose all throughout the Bible, but not in Revelation..."

I believe the commands to leave God's words untouched in Deut. and Prov. etc., and I would never condone ANYONE adding/subtracting/altering the words of God.

Originally Posted by pbiwolski

Was he not showing words that Westcott and Hort removed in their text? Maybe I missed his point.

It looks to me like he was bolding the words W-H took out. I just looked in my NIV and they are in fact gone. Do you see this as a problem?

Originally Posted by pbiwolski

Where do you get the idea that we're defending changing the text of scripture, or making allowances for some to do it? Reread the start of this thread. The question was in reference to what John was talking about at the close of his book. I think I addressed clearly why I believe that John was referring only to the book that he was writing.

I was in no way suggesting that "you can pick and choose all throughout the Bible, but not in Revelation..."

I believe the commands to leave God's words untouched in Deut. and Prov. etc., and I would never condone ANYONE adding/subtracting/altering the words of God.

I guess I'm not sure what y'all are trying to accomplish. It looks like you are defending the fact that there will not be consequences for messing with God's Word.

You said you're with Paladin, so this is where it looks as though those that take away from the Bible in other places should be ok.

Originally Posted by Paladin54

Is all the Bible prophecy? I think not, even though the whole Bible is the special revelation of Jesus Christ.

So if I take words out of...say Joshua, my name will be taken out of the book of life?

Originally Posted by Paladin54

You're right, but that brings us back to the original question, could Revelation 22:19 be talking only about the book of prophecy of Revelation?


And if yes, then does that mean that those who omit from the Bible, which is all prophecy, lost their place in the book of life?

Brother, this is huge.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by jerry

I don't believe any true Christian can lose their salvation. God keeps His own. What I do believe is that professing (but not possessing) Christians or apostates are going to be shocked one day to find that they were not really saved (if they ever thought they were). These people that Revelation 22:18-19 are referring to are the lost - though they may have a form of godliness, they are tares among the wheat, wolves among the sheep.

Pray tell, what is the difference? I hear this everywhere! What is a professor and a possessor? Please give me a clear picture, thankyou.

There are a lot of people who call themselves Christians (ie. profess to believe), but have never truly trusted the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation - perhaps they never understood the Gospel, perhaps they know what the Gospel means but were unwilling to repent of their sins, perhaps all they did was say a prayer without knowing the truth of who Jesus truly is or what He did to save us, perhaps they are still trying to work their way to Heaven. All these profess salvation, profess to be saved - but are truly not saved. Ie. they are professors, not possessers - they are not born again, do not have the Holy Spirit indwelling them; therefore it is no surprise that when they get disillusioned about the "Christian life" - which they are perhaps trying to live without having the Holy Spirit inside enabling them to live it - they "reject Christ", and apostasize from the faith - which they never truly possessed to begin with. That is what this passage and Hebrews 6 refers to:

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Those that left "the faith" - ie. apostasized from the true believers - were never truly of them (ie. true believers). It is not a loss of salvation, but a rejection of their previous profession.