[Brother Tim]

Yeah, and how about Floridians associating with Georgians! Yuck! Go Gators!

[kns215]

Originally Posted by George

Aloha sister Jassy,

Most of the "ideas" of not marrying people of another "color", "race", or "culture" come from either mixing up God's requirements for the Israelites - not to marry the Pagan idol-worshiping women of the land of Canaan {requirements meant for the Nation of Israel, i.e. Jews/Hebrews - NOT Christians, who are all brothers and sisters in Christ, regardless of their race, culture, or color of their skin.}, or some "Christian" pastors and teachers teaching discrimination against certain people because of their own (pastors/teachers) "cultural" upbringing.

This is just one more issue meant to DIVIDE Christian brethren from each other. Please check out this Thread on "Interracial marriage" on the A.V. 1611 Bible Forums in addition to the "Thread" that Brandon listed:

http://av1611.com/forums/showthread....1530#post11530

There was an acrimonious exchange on this Thread between myself and a young woman (who was a new believer) who had accepted the teachings of brother Peter Ruckman on this issue and who then took those teachings to the extreme (as many of brother Ruckman's followers sometimes do).

Lets examine the issue:

Although Jacob married his "kin" - his choice for a wife (RACHEL) was an idol-worshipper ("purity" of color, race, & culture didn't seem to matter) and please NOTICE: God chose the Priest's (Levi) and the King's (Judah) from the offspring of Jacob & LEAH (Jacob's SECOND WIFE - and NOT the wife of his choosing!).

That's the Bible record, do you think that we Christian men should have "two wives" at once (just in case things don't work out with the first? ). Do you see how someone can twist and wrest the Scriptures to their own destruction?

Joseph married Asenath outside of his "race" & "culture" (with no condemnation from God).

Moses married Zipporah outside of his "race" & "culture" (with no condemnation from God).

Salmon (Boaz's father) married Rachab (an harlot!) outside of his "race" & "culture" (with no condemnation from God).

Boaz married Ruth outside of his "race" & "culture" - (a Moabitess, who had a Book in the Bible named after her - One of only two Books in the Bible named after a woman - imagine that!).

David married Bathsheba (within his "race" & "culture") - for whom he committed adultery and murder (and yet God still gave the kingdom to Solomon - their offspring).

The Prophet Hosea was commanded by the Lord to marry an adulteress (an harlot) - would that mean that Christian men should do the same? You see the trouble people get in when they don't "discern" between the "Jew", the "Gentile", and the "church"?

THE CHURCH OF GOD:

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Do you think that God cares that much about the color of a person's skin, or their "race" (whatever that is), or their "culture", as much as He cares about their heart, and their soul? I trow not!

This "teaching" about "races" and "cultures" is NOT sound Biblical doctrine for this age that we live in. It was sound doctrine for the Jews/Hebrews/Israelites when they came into the land of Canaan after they conquered it.

Please read my Posts in the Thread I gave you the link to.

"Mixed" - cultural and "race" marriages are not EASY, there are a lot of "problems" and "pitfalls", some that are common to all marriages, and some that are specific to a "mixed" marriage. But all of those problems and pitfalls stem from cultural and racial prejudices and biases - NOT from God's "disapproval" of of the joining together of two "different" people from two "different" cultural and "racial" backgrounds.

I speak on this subject with some authority, since I have been married to a Filipina woman (of another "race"; another "color"; and another culture, and in addition who was 17 years of age when we married, and was a Catholic to boot!) for over 48 years now, and God has blessed our union with seven children; 17 grandchildren; and three great-grandchildren.

If it's "TRUE LOVE" based in God's word it will "work out" [Romans 8:28]. If it's not - all of the "SAFEGUARD'S" (the correct "color", "race", and "culture") in the world won't matter!

Read the link of the other tread, and thank you, now I am clear!

I guess with English as my 2nd language, it'll not be easy to have a spouse who doesn't speak my language for me. And that perhaps is why I strongly disagreed to the idea of interracial marriage. (because I made a judgement based on my situation)

Anyhow, thank you everyone for taking time to answer.

Thank God for clearing up another question I have!

[JaeByrd]

Originally Posted by kns215

I guess with English as my 2nd language, it'll not be easy to have a spouse who doesn't speak my language for me. And that perhaps is why I strongly disagreed to the idea of interracial marriage. (because I made a judgement based on my situation)

You underlined "for me". I know of several families where they speak the language of his birthplace, the language or her birth place, and American English all in the same house and each learned for the other. They have no more and no less problems than the folks who marry from the same HIGHSCHOOL! And that is about as Culturally the same as you can get growing up in the same town/area/lifestyle/financial bracket with shared formative years memories.

The majority of the marital issues I see stem not from race or cultural differences, but from stepping out of our roles as Biblically laid out: Husband as head of the house loving his wife/wife being in submission and reverencing her husband. And that happens in ANY marriage, not just the racially/culturally different ones.

[greenbear]

Originally Posted by kns215

So, now I am confused.
Is it just personal "preference"? Or is it settled with a final answer that it is RIGHT to marry outside your nation.

And since Caucasians are already mixed (i.e. Irish with German, etc), and so are Asians and Negroes (within their "colour of skin"), there shouldn't be any line drawn between those three "races" either?

But what about all those "differences" between each cultures?

So basically, no matter what nation, race, or culture you are from, just follow the Bible.. and there you go, no problem will occur whatsoever?

I could be very "misinformed" in this issue, and I am definitely open for the final answer based on the Scripture.


Added:
Oh, and would this issue be a doctrinal issue?

Another addition:
So, say if parents don't want their kids to marry anyone outside of their nation, race, or culture, are they, therefore, being unreasonable and unbiblical? (Say the reason is because communication issues, not faith issue)

Thank you for taking time to respond!

.................................................. ....................
Here are my answers to your questions, kns215. It's how I see things, anyway.

kns215: Is it just personal "preference"? Or is it settled with a final answer that it is RIGHT to marry outside your nation.

It is personal preference because the scriptures, generally, and Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, specifically, do not address the issue. Therefore, if you, having a personal preference, which you have every right to, wish to use the scriptures to justify your personal opinion then you are wrong.

kns215: And since Caucasians are already mixed (i.e. Irish with German, etc), and so are Asians and Negroes (within their "colour of skin"), there shouldn't be any line drawn between those three "races" either?

I'm not sure I understand your question. Please forgive me if I misunderstand you: How many different races are you proposing to divide people up into? We might all have to become Mormons so we have the resources to research our family tree so we can have some hope of finding a genetically suitable mate. It becomes absurd when you think it through.

kns215: But what about all those "differences" between each cultures?

What about them? This is the personal preference/ personal choice thing we were discussing. Scripture has nothing to say about it. These are decisions that we can only make for ourselves and our children, perhaps, but certainly can't decide these matters for other people that we don't even know?

kns215: So basically, no matter what nation, race, or culture you are from, just follow the Bible.. and there you go, no problem will occur whatsoever?

The only scriptural consideration is if one is a christian Paul warns against becoming unequally yoked with an unbeliever. Race is not a consideration in any way, shape, or form. Of course, there are cultural and social considerations that each individual has to weigh for themselves.

kns215: I could be very "misinformed" in this issue, and I am definitely open for the final answer based on the Scripture.

No problem, kns215. We all have to have our minds renewed by God's Word. The lies of the world are not easy to get free from. I appreciate your honesty and willingness to search for the truth about this matter.

kns215: Oh, and would this issue be a doctrinal issue?

Interacial marriage is not a doctrinal issue.

kns215: So, say if parents don't want their kids to marry anyone outside of their nation, race, or culture, are they, therefore, being unreasonable and unbiblical? (Say the reason is because communication issues, not faith issue)

Whether such a position would be unreasonable is simply a matter of opinion. The position wouldn't be unbiblical unless the parents were trying to use scripture to back up their personal opinions in the sense that they were adding to the Word of God, trying to make the Bible say something it doesn't say.

I might add that Paul does say the saved out of all races are one in Christ Jesus during the gentile church age.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Paul also emphasizes that all nations are to receive blessing by faith through Abraham (the Jews). No one gentile nation is preferred over another.

Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

I hope this might help in some way.

Your sister,

Jennifer

[Jassy]

Originally Posted by biblereader

There's a couple of specific verses in the Bible, that deal with who not to marry.
Never marry a saved person to an unsaved person, but, if one gets saved after the marriage, then we're supposed to stay married to the same person, even if they remain lost.
(look for unequally yoked)
Different ethnicities, different customs,none have any bearing on getting married.
The only thing is for a believer to marry another believer. That's it, as far as I know.
Also, in the Old Testament, God was angered when the Hebrews married OUTSIDE of their religion.
Christians marry Christians, no matter how cute the other one looks and acts, to marry on purpose, a lost person, a non_Christian, is sin.

Thank you for your post, sister. I agree that 2 Corinthians 6:14 tells believers NOT to be unequally yoked with UNbelievers. True!

[Jassy]

Very helpful, brother George, and I read all of the threads that brother Brandon had posted regarding this topic. Also very helpful!

[custer]

Maybe this is too simplistic, but...

How can "race" be a "Darwinian concept," when Noah Webster's 1828 dictionary defines race as
"1. The lineage of a family, or continued series of descendants from a parent who is called the stock. A race is the series of descendants indefinitely. Thus all mankind are called the race of Adam; the Israelites are the race of Abraham and Jacob." ???
According to www.aboutdarwin.com, a website "dedicated to the life and times of Charles Darwin," in 1828 when Webster had already formulated the above definition, Darwin was in school and "did not take his studies very seriously, spending much of his free time collecting beetles, reading Shakespeare, and having dinner parties with his friends." He didn't start publishing scientific diaries until 1836 and the Origin of the Species wasn't until 1859. I'm just saying that the idea of a "race" being a line of people couldn't have originated with him.
Interestingly, the Bible terminology is the "generations of [so-and-so,]" and one of Webster's definitions of a "generation" is a "race."
It seems like this discussion got off course by confusing race with nationality. It is only in a NEW dictionary that "race" has been expanded to include the word "nation." And still, when you are asked on an application to give your race, they're not asking where you're from!

Pam
www.custerfamilyfarm.com

[biblereader]

Originally Posted by tonybones2112

Cody, where is the Scripture that says skin color, a fold of skin over the eyelid, facial features, nationality, is a marker for judging who you can marry, associate with, let in your church, etc.?

Grace and peace

Tony

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness?" (KJV)
Nothing there about skin color. U R right, Tony.

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by custer

Maybe this is too simplistic, but...

How can "race" be a "Darwinian concept," when Noah Webster's 1828 dictionary defines race as
"1. The lineage of a family, or continued series of descendants from a parent who is called the stock. A race is the series of descendants indefinitely. Thus all mankind are called the race of Adam; the Israelites are the race of Abraham and Jacob." ???
According to www.aboutdarwin.com, a website "dedicated to the life and times of Charles Darwin," in 1828 when Webster had already formulated the above definition, Darwin was in school and "did not take his studies very seriously, spending much of his free time collecting beetles, reading Shakespeare, and having dinner parties with his friends." He didn't start publishing scientific diaries until 1836 and the Origin of the Species wasn't until 1859. I'm just saying that the idea of a "race" being a line of people couldn't have originated with him.
Interestingly, the Bible terminology is the "generations of [so-and-so,]" and one of Webster's definitions of a "generation" is a "race."
It seems like this discussion got off course by confusing race with nationality. It is only in a NEW dictionary that "race" has been expanded to include the word "nation." And still, when you are asked on an application to give your race, they're not asking where you're from!

The problem is, people do not generally use the word race to refer to things like the "race of Adam" as in that definition. And again, the word is not used in the Bible the way we are using it; not once. In fact I do believe we are all "the race of Adam." But that obviously doesn't settle the issue for folks who want to find something about "race mixing" in the Bible. Using the Webster definition you provide, we are all one race anyway.

The concept of race, as it is used commonly, is Darwinian. The idea certainly pre-dates Darwin. That is a side issue. Call it whatever you like; it's not a Biblical concept.

If we were using the word "race" to refer to the various "ites" of the Bible, it still wouldn't change the fact that the Bible shows all sorts of "ite mixing" without condemnation from God. Again, only Isreal under the Law was ever concerned with such things --- and even then it was about specific nations, like the cursed Canaan nation. While there are spiritual applications for we in Christ, there are no commandments for us to follow regarding "mixing" of skin colors.

[Renee]

Originally Posted by Jassy

Thank you for your post, sister. I agree that 2 Corinthians 6:14 tells believers NOT to be unequally yoked with UNbelievers. True!

2 Corinthians deals with the ministery.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

I see nothing in Chapter 7 of first Chorinthians (where it deals with men and women) that has any forbiding of someone marrying an unbeliever. There is no mention of nationality, culture, or color of skin. Our problem is we always put words in The Lords mouth. (Like Eve did from the very beginning).

1 Corinthians 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

Do you see any condemnation in the verse above?

When we read the Bible with faith and belief in our heart and pray for understanding, The Word comes alive. Knowledge puffet up, we should leave our brains in the top drawer!

Aloha,
Renee