[niteowl1611]

Hello all. I need some advice about confronting my pastor regarding his choice of bibles again. If you recall, my first post here was about our church switching our pew bibles to the ESV. Well I was informed Saturday at our prayer breakfast, that he is indeed going with the plans to do so. That alone was enough for me to upchuck my eggs. Well, before it got better it got worse. After breakfast we hold an informal bible study at the table for about 35-40 min. My pastor said he had another bible he highly recommend for devotions and when you don't want to "rack your brains with study". It was the message bible by eugene patterson (lower case intended)Our verse study was Mat. 9:12-13. I did something I had never done before. I left church as soon as it was read. I didn't excuse myself, I just picked up my bible and walked out. Here is the butchering of Mat. 9:12-13 Jesus, overhearing, shot back, "Who needs a doctor: the healthy or the sick? Go figure out what this Scripture means: 'I'm after mercy, not religion.' I'm here to invite outsiders, not coddle insiders." I am not sure if I can continue on at this church. He used to be a very powerful, AV preacher. He also of late has been letting women lead Thursday night bible studies. Him being the pastor, I just don't know how to go about it this time. Any advice would be greatly appreciated and needed. Thank you, Keith.

[chette777]

I would find a KJV Bible Believing church if I were you. you will not convince them to change. but keep them in prayer. If asked in private why our not attending anymore then you make your reason known but don't try to convert anyone to leave.

Praying for you

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by niteowl1611

Hello all. I need some advice about confronting my pastor regarding his choice of bibles again. If you recall, my first post here was about our church switching our pew bibles to the ESV. Well I was informed Saturday at our prayer breakfast, that he is indeed going with the plans to do so. That alone was enough for me to upchuck my eggs. Well, before it got better it got worse. After breakfast we hold an informal bible study at the table for about 35-40 min. My pastor said he had another bible he highly recommend for devotions and when you don't want to "rack your brains with study". It was the message bible by eugene patterson (lower case intended)Our verse study was Mat. 9:12-13. I did something I had never done before. I left church as soon as it was read. I didn't excuse myself, I just picked up my bible and walked out. Here is the butchering of Mat. 9:12-13 Jesus, overhearing, shot back, "Who needs a doctor: the healthy or the sick? Go figure out what this Scripture means: 'I'm after mercy, not religion.' I'm here to invite outsiders, not coddle insiders." I am not sure if I can continue on at this church. He used to be a very powerful, AV preacher. He also of late has been letting women lead Thursday night bible studies. Him being the pastor, I just don't know how to go about it this time. Any advice would be greatly appreciated and needed. Thank you, Keith.

Keith, one of my favorite passages of Scripture is Ezekiel 2. Son of man, preach my word to them, they are stubborn and rebellious, and what's more, they will not listen to you. Why? That in their fall they will know a prophet of God has been among them.

I think that walking out and leaving without a word would be wrong. I know this because that's just what I did. I left a church and people I loved because a pastor killed, murdered, assassinated, obliterated in no uncertain terms and with no redress or dissent the street ministry of the church because his own flesh could not handle the cuties and the babes on the street, going into the clubs and bars and just having a jolly good old time partying. I was stunned, I was inexperienced in these things and just got up and walked out an left.

Woe be unto the next one.

I think you need to stand up at the next meeting and say that the KJV is given to us by inspiration, that the men "translating" and selling these pieces of spiritual pornography are handling the word of God deceitfully and corrupting it and making merchandise of all of us with their planned obsolescence of first this version and that version, and if the KJV was good enough for Billy Sunday, David Brainerd, and Dl Moody, it's good enough for me. As God told Jeremiah, be not afraid of anything, their looks, their sneers, the threats to their own wallets. There is nothing new under the sun, No "manuscript discoveries", and why use a stave when a sword is a better weapon. When I taught knife fighting, I demonstrated the old saying: Only person who ever showed up with a knife at a gunfight and prevailed was an Indian. To whatever objections they raise remind them to keep doing the work of Jesuits and diluting the word of God, which is perfect and incorruptable, and that this issue, not "liberal theology" or "emerging churches" will be the cause of this church soon being an empty building. If they go forward with this plan of apostacy I'd leave, and then shake the dust from the soles of your shoes.

The glory departed from the Southern Baptist Convention with their support of slavery in the Civil War and has been little more than an empty shell since. Why do they not use the Holman "Christian" Standard, their version of the NIV? Or were the perks or outright bribes of the publishers of the ESV greater?

De 16:19 Thou shalt not wrest judgment; thou shalt not respect persons, neither take a gift: for a gift doth blind the eyes of the wise, and pervert the words of the righteous.

Peter Ruckman did not creat the "KJV-Only": BF Wescott and FJA Hort did.

At the Judgement Seat Of Christ they will all point their fingers at you but He will say, dudes, a prophet of God was among you, you have no excuse, as they watch their works and their "rewards" go up in flames.

Grace and peace to you Keith.

Tony

[Fredoheaven]

Originally Posted by niteowl1611

Hello all. I need some advice about confronting my pastor regarding his choice of bibles again. If you recall, my first post here was about our church switching our pew bibles to the ESV. Well I was informed Saturday at our prayer breakfast, that he is indeed going with the plans to do so. That alone was enough for me to upchuck my eggs. Well, before it got better it got worse. After breakfast we hold an informal bible study at the table for about 35-40 min. My pastor said he had another bible he highly recommend for devotions and when you don't want to "rack your brains with study". It was the message bible by eugene patterson (lower case intended)Our verse study was Mat. 9:12-13. I did something I had never done before. I left church as soon as it was read. I didn't excuse myself, I just picked up my bible and walked out. Here is the butchering of Mat. 9:12-13 Jesus, overhearing, shot back, "Who needs a doctor: the healthy or the sick? Go figure out what this Scripture means: 'I'm after mercy, not religion.' I'm here to invite outsiders, not coddle insiders." I am not sure if I can continue on at this church. He used to be a very powerful, AV preacher. He also of late has been letting women lead Thursday night bible studies. Him being the pastor, I just don't know how to go about it this time. Any advice would be greatly appreciated and needed. Thank you, Keith.

In case your pastor loses his momentum in using KJV(AV) try do the ff:

1. Pray. The power of prayer is very important. You need to pray for your pastor. He is in deep trouble. He is allowing himself into a confusion. He's no longer sticking to the Old grand book, he onced used. If you are abiding in His word and others are not, then you you have the power to pray.

John 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

2.Prove. After much prayer to your pastor, it's time to ask him privately and personally why he is intending to replace KJV. It's also about time to prove your point telling him that the KJV is the Word of God. But do it in love and in polite manner, considering you are a member and he is your pastor.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

3. Pack-up. If things going in a wrong way and it seems nothing happens after you have said your viewpoint in how many times, then its time to pack-up things. Fellowship with those who do not alter the Word of God. You may look for other Bible Believing Baptist Church where the KJV is passionately used and loved. This is hard thing to do but still the best way.

[George]

Originally Posted by niteowl1611

"Hello all. I need some advice about confronting my pastor regarding his choice of bibles again. If you recall, my first post here was about our church switching our pew bibles to the ESV. Well I was informed Saturday at our prayer breakfast, that he is indeed going with the plans to do so. That alone was enough for me to upchuck my eggs. Well, before it got better it got worse. After breakfast we hold an informal bible study at the table for about 35-40 min. My pastor said he had another bible he highly recommend for devotions and when you don't want to "rack your brains with study". It was the message bible by eugene patterson (lower case intended)Our verse study was Mat. 9:12-13. I did something I had never done before. I left church as soon as it was read. I didn't excuse myself, I just picked up my bible and walked out. Here is the butchering of" Mat. 9:12-13 Jesus, overhearing, shot back, "Who needs a doctor: the healthy or the sick? Go figure out what this Scripture means: 'I'm after mercy, not religion.' I'm here to invite outsiders, not coddle insiders." "I am not sure if I can continue on at this church. He used to be a very powerful, AV preacher. He also of late has been letting women lead Thursday night bible studies. Him being the pastor, I just don't know how to go about it this time. Any advice would be greatly appreciated and needed. Thank you, Keith."

Aloha brother Keith,

You asked for "advice", so here it is (for what it's worth ):

Brother Fred had some good advise, but by your testimony {your Post #20 in the "Jeremiah 3:1 ESV vs. KJB Thread"} you have already: "I have beaten this same subject into fine powder at our church." And so, definitely pray about the matter first and then determine a course of action.

The way I see it you have several choices:

1. Stay and fight. {I have been in this "battle" for over 40 years and I have yet to see a church reverse itself - once it starts down this road.}

2. Quietly leave. {And some people will be wondering "WHY?".}

3. Go to a service (Sunday night or Wednesday when the chances of a lost person being there are slim) and simply "testify" (NOT harangue!) as to WHY you are leaving (keep it short) and then leave.

I "quietly left" (because I wasn't a member) an Independent Baptist church in 1973 that "professed" to believe the King James Bible, but which chose to "cooperate" with Jack Van Impe in an "evangelistic crusade" (with them knowing full well that Van Impe "corrected" the King James Bible) - they no longer "profess" to believe in the King James Bible.

I left an Independent Baptist church which "professed" to believe the King James Bible, but which (after several Bob Jones University graduates joined the church), set up a Christmas tree on the platform of the church building and "decked the halls with balls of holly". {I went to a Wednesday night service and read a portion of Jeremiah Chapter 10 and then left.} The people of that church (following the BJU graduates) valued "things" more than my family - they no longer "profess" to believe in the King James Bible.

I left another (small) Independent Baptist church which "professed" to believe the King James Bible, but when it came time to "incorporate" the pastor presented the Constitution & By-laws to the congregation and basically said "take it (as written with no comments) it or leave". Within that the Constitution & By-laws was a church "practice" that I do not believe in or agree with - called "closed communion". {I went to a service and "testified" why I believed that the practice of "closed communion" was wrong and left. With No shouting - No finger pointing.} Although that church still "professes" to believe the King James Bible, just before I moved from Kauai they were having a "Seminar" on how to "handle your MONEY"!

I left another Independent Baptist church which "professed" to believe the King James Bible, because the pastor was (and still is) a totalitarian dictator who required absolute "loyalty" to the pastor and preached mandatory (compulsory) "obedience" to whatever the pastor said. {I went to a wednesday night service to "testify" and the pastor, his son, and one other man (all of them bigger than myself) physically prevented me from "testifying" to the congregation}. That church is about 1/3 the size it once was and the man who assited the pastor in preventing me from speaking - comitted SUICIDE!

As you can see, you've got lots of choices, but I can assure you of one thing - when you stand up for God's Holy words, it's going to cost you! If we "profess" to believe in the King James Bible, God "puts it to us" (God "proves" us - as He has done with all His people, all throughout the different Ages and Covenants).

There may not be a sound Bible church where you live (as you can see even some of the "professing" King James Bible churches are on the road to apostasy). If there aren't - keep on holding services in your home; and whatever you do "keep on, keeping on". Try not to get discouraged; your'e not alone.

By taking a stand on God's Holy words, you have become a "target" - not only by the lost (that's easy to understand), but by the "brethren" (that's not so easy to understand or to deal with). There are quite a few genuine Bible believers on this Forum who care and of course - God is always faithful:

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

2 Thessalonians 3:3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

I pray that God will guide you in choosing; and that whatever course you choose, that it will be according to God's will for your life. May God bless you brother.

Originally Posted by niteowl1611

Hello all. I need some advice about confronting my pastor regarding his choice of bibles again. If you recall, my first post here was about our church switching our pew bibles to the ESV. Well I was informed Saturday at our prayer breakfast, that he is indeed going with the plans to do so. That alone was enough for me to upchuck my eggs. Well, before it got better it got worse. After breakfast we hold an informal bible study at the table for about 35-40 min. My pastor said he had another bible he highly recommend for devotions and when you don't want to "rack your brains with study". It was the message bible by eugene patterson (lower case intended)Our verse study was Mat. 9:12-13. I did something I had never done before. I left church as soon as it was read. I didn't excuse myself, I just picked up my bible and walked out. Here is the butchering of Mat. 9:12-13 Jesus, overhearing, shot back, "Who needs a doctor: the healthy or the sick? Go figure out what this Scripture means: 'I'm after mercy, not religion.' I'm here to invite outsiders, not coddle insiders." I am not sure if I can continue on at this church. He used to be a very powerful, AV preacher. He also of late has been letting women lead Thursday night bible studies. Him being the pastor, I just don't know how to go about it this time. Any advice would be greatly appreciated and needed. Thank you, Keith.

Well Keith, my advice is quietly get out of there and find a church that uses the KJV. I have been a member of the same Independent Baptist Church for 25 years and they have never wavered on their stand for the KJV. As Brother George stated, you are not alone. There are plenty of good churches out there, and you should not be sitting under or supporting the ministry of any man who is a Bible corrector or promotes new perversions. God bless...

[ChaplainPaul]

Originally Posted by niteowl1611

Hello all. I need some advice about confronting my pastor regarding his choice of bibles again. If you recall, my first post here was about our church switching our pew bibles to the ESV. Well I was informed Saturday at our prayer breakfast, that he is indeed going with the plans to do so. That alone was enough for me to upchuck my eggs. Well, before it got better it got worse. After breakfast we hold an informal bible study at the table for about 35-40 min. My pastor said he had another bible he highly recommend for devotions and when you don't want to "rack your brains with study". It was the message bible by eugene patterson (lower case intended)Our verse study was Mat. 9:12-13. I did something I had never done before. I left church as soon as it was read. I didn't excuse myself, I just picked up my bible and walked out. Here is the butchering of Mat. 9:12-13 Jesus, overhearing, shot back, "Who needs a doctor: the healthy or the sick? Go figure out what this Scripture means: 'I'm after mercy, not religion.' I'm here to invite outsiders, not coddle insiders." I am not sure if I can continue on at this church. He used to be a very powerful, AV preacher. He also of late has been letting women lead Thursday night bible studies. Him being the pastor, I just don't know how to go about it this time. Any advice would be greatly appreciated and needed. Thank you, Keith.

Keith, I understand your predicament. I think what you did was ok. One might always think of a better way to handle it in hindsight, but I think that was fine. Finding the line between fighting and staying is hard. You've found that you don't want to follow where the leadership is taking the church, and apparently most of the rest of the church either couldn't care less or is on board. When you find you can't walk with your fellowship, it either ends in a church split or your leave. I don't know of any occasion where this kind of thing ends in repentance. It's as much shaking the dust off of your feet while leaving as it is living in peace with people. "Sure, you can be my brother, but I'm not going to sit under your teaching."

That's just me, though. I'd rather leave than kill what's left of a church.

Another poster mentioned that there were still plenty of churches to go to, but that's not been my experience. Finding a good church is rare. If you find one, cherish the fellowship and pray for your pastor.

[George]

Originally Posted by ChaplainPaul

Keith, I understand your predicament. I think what you did was ok. One might always think of a better way to handle it in hindsight, but I think that was fine. Finding the line between fighting and staying is hard. You've found that you don't want to follow where the leadership is taking the church, and apparently most of the rest of the church either couldn't care less or is on board. When you find you can't walk with your fellowship, it either ends in a church split or your leave. I don't know of any occasion where this kind of thing ends in repentance. It's as much shaking the dust off of your feet while leaving as it is living in peace with people. "Sure, you can be my brother, but I'm not going to sit under your teaching."

That's just me, though. I'd rather leave than kill what's left of a church.

Another poster mentioned that there were still plenty of churches to go to, but that's not been my experience. Finding a good church is rare. If you find one, cherish the fellowship and pray for your pastor.

Aloha brother,

I agree. when I left the churches I mentioned, I never stayed to "fight it out"; I never sought "a following"; and I made no attempt to "split" the church (after all, it's God's church - not mine). After testifying to the error or false doctrine that was going on - I would leave. Most American Christians would rather stay and put up with "leaven" than take a stand on the Holy word of God. {It's called Humanism!}

And I also wholly agree with you about the state of the churches in the U.S.A. (and I'm not talking about the "Evangelical" or "Charismatic" churches - I'm talking about the so-called "Fundamentalist" churches.) There aren't plenty of "good churches" around. A "good" sound Bible church is hard to find these days - much harder than 40-50 years ago!

[chette777]

I agree George about leaving. it is very hard spiritually to stay and try and fight with them as well. the little booklet on Humanism really opened my eyes to some of what is going on in churches today.

sad to say you are right to find a true sound bible church today is very rare thing.

[Brother Tim]

I'll throw my two cents in also.

I would suggest that you quietly leave with a few variations. First, a story:

One of my daughters was very deeply involved in a church ministry. She participated in many programs in the church and was integral to the children's ministry there. The church began the slide toward the "emerging church" style [I call it submerging church]. She spoke with the pastor privately about it. He brushed her off as if there was nothing to it. As the church, under the influence of the pastor's wife, slid faster and deeper, other people also began to go to the pastor. Soon there was a group of faithful people meeting to seek a solution. When it was obvious that the pastor was on a one-way street, the group quietly left the church without open explanation. They privately spoke with close friends who chose to stay, so that the leaving would not be a mystery. Within in a week or so, the pastor openly berated those who had left as troublemakers. His attack only made some of the close friends to leave as well when they saw his attitude with clear eyes.

As a pastor myself, meeting with the pastor before leaving is appropriate. In reality, that pastor should have already noticed a problem and asked to meet with you, but we can already see that he has lost discernment. Meeting with him is not to attempt to change his mind (too far gone), but to clarify your position. Secondly, any members of the church who are close to you should hear from your own mouth, so that the truth will not be distorted. Do not under any circumstance try to talk anyone else into leaving or into stirring up a rebellion against the pastor. Those actions never bring a good end. Most of all, continue praying for that church and for those who will be negatively influenced by its backslide.