[George]

Originally Posted by RonB

There Luke, you have it, a better formulated question and thank you Bro Parrish for a reasoned and calm reply. I didn't come on this forum to be flamed, my question is sincere, I have no guile. I tried various searches because I knew beyond a doubt that this subject must have been discussed many times on this forum but I wasn't able to come up with anything.

Diligent, you need to be more restrained on the trigger my friend with that sort of jugular approach you may run off a truth seeker that is having difficulties. I've been through much so I have a thick skin but I appreciate CIVIL DISCOURSE.

Thank you,
Ron

RonB,

This is probably one of the most tolerant Forums on Bible issues you can find on the NET. But on the other hand at least once a week we get these "one issue" people who join the AV1611 Forums, and we have no idea whether they are Christians or not.

Your first "Thread" on the Forum raises suspicions, because, instead of coming on and giving us a personal testimony about yourself, you start with a question on a topic that you should have settled long ago - that is, if you spent much time studying the Bible.

You see we know nothing about you, for instance: Do you have a Seventh Day Adventist background?; or are you acquainted with British Israelism?; or perhaps you have been influenced by the World Wide Church of God?

Without a personal testimony (from your lips to our ears - so to speak), we have no idea who you are, and whether you are sincerely looking for the truth or just another "trouble-maker" (and we get our share every week) looking for a "platform" to expound on whatever "pet doctrine" that may have caught their fancy.

Diligent answered your inquiry with Scripture (rightly divided and in context); you have yet to answer him, instead you came back with:

"No Brandon, don't be so quick to get personal, I'm ASKING for some Scripture here, okay? Some sound reasoning, some calm reasoning, some DISCOURSE, I'm not taking any position but this has certainly been on my mind and don't think this issue hasn't been taken up by other scholars and is coming back. Not so much in the legalistic sense either but as one of the commandments to be observed so if you don't mind take a breath."

WHY are you so touchy? WHY are you so easily provoked? WHY didn't you overlook his "tone", if you didn't like the manner in which he answered you, and at least deal with the "substance" of his reply and ANSWER HIS COMMENTS and the Scriptures he presented, instead of going off on a private little "funk"?

Instead of dealing with Brandon's reply, you ignored his comments and then "flattered" some of the other brethren who answered you the way you preferred (or demand). But for someone who is supposedly earnestly searching for the truth, you have yet to reply to any of the comments made by any of the brethren who have taken the time to answer your question.

Since you posted your Thread: "Sabbath observance", 12 hours have passed and several of the brethren have responded to your question and you have yet to respond to a single one of their comments, except to compliment them on the "nice manner" {} in which they responded! You said you wanted "some DISCOURSE" - Well DISCOURSE then; 12 hours is plenty of time to at least answer some of the comments made by the brethren in response to you inquiry! {Just exactly what are you trying to accomplish?}

You have gotten several answers - are you going to respond, or are you going to keep on criticizing the Administrator of the Forum, because (poor thing) he didn't respond to you in an "acceptable manner"? That is - "acceptable" to you?

For someone who claims have a "thick skin" you seem awfully "thin-skinned' to me!

You will notice that I haven't attempted to answer your question, because, at 66 years of age, if you aren't able to discern between "the Jew" (Israel); "the Gentile"; and "the church" [1Corinthians 10:32] - chances are you never will.

You claim that your not "new" to the Bible, but this is an issue that you should have settled years ago. (I settled it over 40 years ago) If you're not "new" to the Bible - WHERE have you been? WHO have you been "studying" under? {Do you see WHY your personal testimony might be of some help to us?}

If you are sincere, you will start to answer and reply to the comments made by the brethren. If you are "disingenuous" you will go off in a "huff", playing the "victim" to those mean ole intolerant Bible "thumpers" on The AV1611 Bible Forums.

[George]

Aloha all,

Well, it's over 48 hours since RonB posted his Thread about the Sabbath:

"Can someone justify through Scripture (not through fallen man) for not observing the Sabbath on the seventh day?"

He said he wanted "DISCOURSE", but the only "discourse" that he shared with us was his criticism of Brandon (for his tone), and his "flattering" some of the brethren (who tried to "discourse" with him) for a nicer tone or attitude.

PLEASE NOTICE:

Brandon (Diligent) answered him three times.
Parrish answered him once.
Luke answered him once.
Kiwi Christian answered him once.
Chette 777 answered him once.

RonB claimed he was looking for "some DISCOURSE":

"No Brandon, don't be so quick to get personal, I'm ASKING for some Scripture here, okay? Some sound reasoning, some calm reasoning, some DISCOURSE, I'm not taking any position but this has certainly been on my mind and don't think this issue hasn't been taken up by other scholars and is coming back. Not so much in the legalistic sense either but as one of the commandments to be observed so if you don't mind take a breath."

Not counting Brandon's 3 replies, four other people replied (in a manner acceptable to RonB) and he has yet (48 hours later) to engage in the "discourse" he claimed he was looking for!

I made no attempt to "discourse" with RonB, mainly because of his attitude towards Brandon.

After dealing with "Christians" for over 50 years, I am always suspicious of a "Christian" who's interest is in OBSERVING SOMETHING [Matthew 23:23 & Luke 11:42]; who says they have studied the Bible, and yet are still hung-up over "the first principles of the oracles of God" {an inablity to discern between the Jew, the Gentile, and the church of God}; and who claims to be a Christian, but is reluctant to give their personal testimony.

In his biography (listed on the Forum) RonB said: "About myself? Not important but I think I'm among friends here." How a person got saved is always important! And where they have been after they got saved will reveal a whole lot about a person. We know nothing about the man or his background, but one thing is obvious - contrary to what he said, he's thin-skinned and has "a chip on his shoulder".

In my closing remarks to RonB I stated:

"If you are sincere, you will start to answer and reply to the comments made by the brethren. If you are "disingenuous" you will go off in a "huff", playing the "victim" to those mean ole intolerant Bible "thumpers" on The AV1611 Bible Forums."

It remains to be seen whether RonB is "disengenuous" or not; and whether he will join the ranks of the kooks, crazies, and crackpots that regularly show up on the Forum about once a week or so!

Contrast RonB's "stealth approach" and "hyper-sensitive attitude", and Tonybones' open declaration of who he is; his background; and his willingness to openly declare what he believes. I may disagree over some issues with brother "bones", but one thing's for certain - he has given a clear testimony to having been saved, and he has been open about his background and where he's been since he got saved.

There's a whole lot to be said for someone who is honest and above board, and who has NO GUILE!

[chette777]

yes George I had expected to hear back from him concerning the scriptures I gave him either to the positive or negative. But nada, nil, nothing from RonB.

Maybe he really isn't for discussing just making punches and runny off to his corner. I think we all did as he wanted

But was it enough is he on tract now concerning the Sabbath observance? at least he could do is answer whether those scriptures were satisfactory enough. Or is he just gaining scriptures that we use to go against the sabbath day requirement under law for the Jews as a requirement for the body of Christ today. so he can try and debunk it on another forum somewhere?

Seems he is a Sabbath Day observing Adventist, COC or British Israelite.

[BornAgainBibleBeliever514]

I know I'm not a major contributor on these forums, simply because of two factors: I don't have all the answers (but I do have some!), and secondly, I just can't make enough time in the day to keep on top of such an active forum, especially when each post has so much to think about.
In my former life, I got addicted to a forum for a certain video game clan I played alot, and I became a mainstay there, but that was relatively easy, because the topics were nowhere as meaty. Anyways, I had to quit once I was spending every waking hour on the site. Keeping on top of x number of rich conversations can be exasperating.
(-surely some of you must feel this way sometimes)

Anyways, I'll just put my two cents in on this RonB post:

I agree his entire approach seems like every SDA member I've ever spoken with. What a shame if he is, but we don't know if that's certainly the case.
Most cult members have sincere devotion to trying to please God, they'd make great Christians if they could just rely on the scriptures alone, instead of the cult leaders.
Whenever SDA is discussed, its always about Sabbath observance, but rarely about Ellen White, which actually creates numerous theological and salvational problems for the follower.

Granted, RonB hasn't responded yet, but let's not write him off as running away, because not everyone can live on their PC, perhaps he simply can't get to it yet. Give him some time. Anyone concerned about Sabbath observance clearly didn't come to be concerned over that from any sound-doctrine preacher. If someone came to concern over keeping ONE law, why aren't they equally concerned about ALL laws? And if someone were concerned about all the laws, they would eventually turn to Christ.

Hey, maybe RonB is spending his time in Galatians and Romans, which would be the best place for him at this point. Good scripture was given, and if he asks for more discourse, he can have it here. The best thing we can do is explain the Christian's justification by Christ's complete atonement, but even better, we should pray for him.


By the way, Diligent, (and you must be, to be forum moderator!), might I ask about your avatar? is that really you? is that some baptist preacher?
Perhaps it swings newcomer's perception of your responses, when your doing your job of moderating, of course, they seem to take offense too easily.
Could be just them, but could the avatar be adding a little tension?

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by BornAgainBibleBeliever514

By the way, Diligent, (and you must be, to be forum moderator!), might I ask about your avatar? is that really you? is that some baptist preacher?
Perhaps it swings newcomer's perception of your responses, when your doing your job of moderating, of course, they seem to take offense too easily.
Could be just them, but could the avatar be adding a little tension?

It's James T. Kirk yelling "Kahn." I can certainly understand confusing it for a baptist preacher.

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Diligent

I gave you Scripture. Consider the verses I quoted, and the other passages I referenced. We are not under the law.

Your initial post does not read at all like a sincere question. It reads as though you want people to justify themselves to you. We have been down this road a dozen times on the forum -- someone comes in, pretends to ask a sincere question, but their whole point is to defend a hobbyhorse issue. Your very first post preemptively accuses people who respond to it of being "scripture twisters."

I would be happy to be proved wrong about the reason for your post. What are your thoughts on the verses I showed you that prove the Sabbath is for Israel, and that we are not to be concerned with what holy days each other keeps?

Yeah, you pretty much nailed it with that verse. If one reads that for what it says, it would be twisting Scripture to try to apply Sabbath observance to Gentile Christians living in the age of God's grace.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by RonB

Hello folks, new to this forum but not the Bible and I know I can find an answer to my question which at 66, has really been on my mind, why?

Can someone justify through Scripture (not through fallen man) for not observing the Sabbath on the seventh day? I don't find it, I have found lots of Scripture twisting going on but I haven't found any true justification. This is serious business since it is in the Commandments. Ignorance may be one thing, but willful disobedience is not acceptable.

So now, if in fact this Commandment should be observed (since it is, after all, a Commandment), then how? I'm really searching here so let us reason together.


Blessings to all,
Ron

Ron, you are basing your question in an unestablished premise, firstly, you are asserting a "Christian" sabbath on "the seventh day". I need first to see your Scriptural proof as to one part of the law of Moses being transposed over into this administration of Paul, the Grace Age, that stresses NO works, such as a sabbath observance. We are under no "commandments". I'm a Gentile after the flesh, and am not bound to the law, only in a description of my human nature.

I renounce sabbath keeping as not part of the gospel Paul preached and you cannot judge me for that belief. There IS no "Christian sabbath":

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Le 19:30 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

Le 26:2 Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

Ron, where is the Tabernacle? Not the Temple but the Tabernacle? If you observe the sabbath did you reverence the Tabernacle? You can't, becasue it no longer exists on earth, and you are guilty under this Scripture:

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

I'd suggest you need to rightly divide the Scriptures right after you give me a Scriptural proof that there is such a thing as a "Christian Sabbath"

Grace and peace to you

Tony

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by RonB

There Luke, you have it, a better formulated question and thank you Bro Parrish for a reasoned and calm reply. I didn't come on this forum to be flamed, my question is sincere, I have no guile. I tried various searches because I knew beyond a doubt that this subject must have been discussed many times on this forum but I wasn't able to come up with anything.

Diligent, you need to be more restrained on the trigger my friend with that sort of jugular approach you may run off a truth seeker that is having difficulties. I've been through much so I have a thick skin but I appreciate CIVIL DISCOURSE.

Thank you,
Ron

Ron, it's very hard to judge the tone of a text message. Not all of us are flaming you. We can be a bit touchy on the subject of the law, give yourself a chance to just read and digest the information you asked for. I add my welcome to you to the forum with the rest.

Grace and peace

Tony

[BornAgainBibleBeliever514]

Well, it looks like Ron might not be back after all. Perhaps he read these scriptures and was convicted. Let's trust that continued prayer for him will bear fruit.
Now, I recently came across someone in my city who advertised a Bible study group, so naturally, I inquired, and ended up making a new friend. We talked at length on the phone for 3 hours+ the other night. He's actually a microbiology PhD at McGill and a creationist! So we had lots to talk about on that. But it also turns out that he's an SDA.
We ha a really great conversation about doctrine, using scriptures back and forth. He remained open-minded and agreed that the scriptures alone should be his final authority. I told him we should pick one or two topics, and stick to them alone for our discussion, so we don't get too sidetracked, and of course we picked Sabbath observance.
So, I'm getting drawn into this discussion with a person all over again, but he seems to have a good attitude, and I even made some points about the Bible versions that he agreed with!
So, I've borrowed a few of the texts from this thread, along with tons of others I've gathered, but I wanted to share one article on an ex-SDA website that I found to be very beneficial.
I'm giving him this article along with other scriptures, I'll let you all know how it goes.
Hey, at least I know he's more or less free to come to a Bible-believing IFB church on Sunday, assuming he doesn't mind accepting the mark of the beast, of course!

http://www.nonsda.org/study7.shtml

[katie ha-lakh]

This may be going off-course in this thread but I'll be quick. I just wanted to commend "BABB 514" in particular for his attitude toward RonB in that we really don't know what he is doing right now. Hopefully, searching the scriptures.