[MC1171611]

Originally Posted by tonybones2112

Clint, I am in the Dayton Ohio area, soon as I can get back on my feet financially I'll drop in Miracle Baptist. I'll be in a Dodge Challenger, you'll hear me coming before you see me, he he.

Grace and peace

Tony

I'm in Eaton, brother...what church do you attend?

[cb6445]

God Bless you brother, Tony. You're welcome anytime. Would love to have you. I'll pray the Lord blesses you financially, as we know he can. Hope to see ya there, it's just a little ol country church. After my message Friday night, we might be down a few more, but that's ok, the Truth will be preached regardless! My God have Mercy on us, no body wants to hear the truth. Oh well, I'll be praying for you brother!

[cb6445]

Thank you Brother George. You're always a great help! God Bless You!!

[cb6445]

Ok, I've got to ask you men a question. In the "Church Age" we live in now (under Grace), can a person get saved w/out repentance? May need to open this up in a new discussion, but oh well.

[tonybones2112]

I want to throw another thing the Alexandrians throw at us: The KJV had a copyright, a CROWN copyright of 1/2 pence for each copy paid tpo the crown for the cost of translating the KJV and only binding on printers IN THE BRITISH EMPIRE, NOT worldwide. I don't know if the crown copyright is still in effect.

Like JWs, the Alexandrians are only interested in winning arguments so the sale of books is not interrupted.

Grace and Peace

Tony

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by cb6445

God Bless you brother, Tony. You're welcome anytime. Would love to have you. I'll pray the Lord blesses you financially, as we know he can. Hope to see ya there, it's just a little ol country church. After my message Friday night, we might be down a few more, but that's ok, the Truth will be preached regardless! My God have Mercy on us, no body wants to hear the truth. Oh well, I'll be praying for you brother!

I "translate" that several people left because of your message?

Remember Gideon and the 300. I know the mind of the Lord there, see I taught guerilla war at one time Clint. He can show His might in a small number.

When I get on my feet, Miracle Baptist is on my list when I go on my little tour

Grace and peace brother

Tony

[Kiwi Christian]

Originally Posted by cb6445

Ok, I've got to ask you men a question. In the "Church Age" we live in now (under Grace), can a person get saved w/out repentance? May need to open this up in a new discussion, but oh well.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Clint, if the repentance you are talking about is defined as "works", where a person physically turns away from their sin, then YES is the answer to your question. We are saved because of Christ's works, not our own.

[cb6445]

I agree Brother Tony. Don't know why they don't want to answer that question. It's a question I've been struggling with lately. I mean I agree with the Brother's response before mine. I know we're saved by GRACE through faith. But can a person really just believe in Jesus' existence and be saved? The bible says even the devils believe and they tremble, but is belief alone enough to save your soul from hell? Does not a person have to be drawn by the Holy Ghost and repent? Can a person have no intention whatsoever of turning from the sin and filth of this world, and just ask Jesus to save them just to avoid hell or use Jesus to get them out of their "problem"? I don't believe so! Anyway, can't wait to see you brother Tony! God's speed!

[Tmonk]

You are saved by Grace and Faith alone. But works tends to be a result after that. Part of those works could be considered turning away from sinful ways. But this is a complicated subject.

Read the Book of James again for some more info on the subject too. James and Paul emphasize different aspects of Salvation.

[George]

Originally Posted by cb6445

"I agree Brother Tony. Don't know why they don't want to answer that question. It's a question I've been struggling with lately. I mean I agree with the Brother's response before mine. I know we're saved by GRACE through faith. But can a person really just believe in Jesus' existence and be saved? The bible says even the devils believe and they tremble, but is belief alone enough to save your soul from hell? Does not a person have to be drawn by the Holy Ghost and repent? Can a person have no intention whatsoever of turning from the sin and filth of this world, and just ask Jesus to save them just to avoid hell or use Jesus to get them out of their "problem"? I don't believe so! Anyway, can't wait to see you brother Tony! God's speed!"

Aloha brother Clint,

Sometimes the reason we don’t answer a question, is not because we don’t know the answer, but it gets tiresome (and a lot of work) repeating ourselves over and over again over an issue that is so very basic for anyone contemplating going into the ministry.

You asked the question: "can a person really just believe in Jesus' existence and be saved?" - the answer is NO! It is not enough to "believe in Jesus' existence" to RECEIVE the gift of eternal life (Salvation). A person must BELIEVE the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

In order to get saved a person MUST BELIEVE ON the Lord Jesus Christ:

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

It is NOT enough to believe that Jesus Christ "existed" - lots of people believe that. A person MUST BELIEVE ON the Lord Jesus Christ. {That entails trusting in His FINISHED work on the Cross on our behalf ("Christ died for our SINS"), and Believing that His shed blood paid God's required price (for sin) and was sufficient for ALL of our sins.}

1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

The KEY verse that unlocks any confusion over one's salvation is John 1:12:

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

If a person truly BELIEVES ON the Lord Jesus Christ (not just that He existed), they become sons of God (through Christ's sacrifice), and I guarantee that God is NOT going to toss His sons into Hell!

John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

As you pointed out: believing that Jesus Christ "existed" is NOT enough - the devils "believe and tremble". But on the other hand, IF you BELIEVE ON the Lord Jesus Christ - that's a whole different story, that makes all the difference in the world. {The difference between RECEIVING eternal life and NOT receiving it - that is why the GOSPEL of the GRACE of God is so important.}

The following Links cover much of the information you are seeking:

http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...86&postcount=5

http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...3&postcount=84
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=117
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...1&postcount=12
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...9&postcount=13
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=261

http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...71&postcount=1
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...0&postcount=30
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...77&postcount=5
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=107
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=254
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...&postcount=247

The following Link tells what would happen to someone IF they could lose their salvation:

http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...82&postcount=1