[Winman]

Well, I can't speak for others, but I believe the earth is very young, about 6000 years old, and I do not believe in the Gap theory.

That said, one of the most difficult problems for young-earth creationists to explain is how starlight from stars and galaxies many millions of light years from earth could be seen at present. I thought on this for a long time. Now certainly God could have made the light to be here instantly, this is the appearance of age theory. And there is some substance to this, when God made Adam and Eve they probably looked like full grown adults, probably at least in their mid-twenties on the day they were created. So God could have made the light just be here.

What bothered me about this is that it makes God seem misleading. The great distance of the stars and galaxies gives the strong impression that the earth is indeed many billions of years old.

But I always believe true science will agree with the Bible. And now that much evidence is coming in that the speed of light was many millions or billions of times faster just several thousand years ago (in earth orbital time), the problem is solved. Light would have arrived here almost instantly, even from many billions of light years distance.

Here is a brief but good article on the subject.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=39733

[chette777]

Actually, if God flung them out into the deep space 6000 years ago you have been seeing light from them every night since as they were created and sent out. so the light you are seeing actually was closer than their actual position today.

the light you see tonight was traveling just shortly after they were created. but the current position if future and you haven't seen that light yet

I found the papers on the Zero Point Energy very interesting. If I understood it correctly (i am not done reading it yet) if you have an absolute vacuum with no light or any type of radio wave lengths. you would still have energy. that is what he called zero point energy. Something out of nothing is possible in that. but again all our study is based in our Time quantum because that is the system we are in. our whole universe is inside this firmament and is limited to the 24/7 Time quantum and that might be why the speed of light is slowing because our circular motion around the sun and our spin is also fluctuating and the stars can only go so far before coming back to earth again.

[MC1171611]

Something interesting that Kent Hovind brought up; I'm not sure if this is accurate still, but this is what he said:

Before the atomic clock, the speed of light was observed to slow down at a steady rate, and thus time itself was slowing. With the invention of the atomic clock, time is now based on the vibration of a Cesium 133 atom, and thus as the atom's vibration slows along with the speed of light, there is no way to measure it, since we're gauging time by time.

Sorry if that's too convoluted...I was trying to make it coherent.

[chette777]

No Ive heard that before and If I am right he does mention it in his DVD's. but he uses this to dismiss its accuracy as a measure of Age and time.

considering what the Scriptures speak of in that God put the stars out into the firmament. so from the earth where he was when He created them he flung them out, they traveled out into the deep space. The Bible also says they will during the great trib fall back to the earth as a fig tree drops her ripened fruit.

If that be true then not only will the speed of light based on the distance of stars appear to slow because the stars themselves are slowing in their trajectory away from the earth, They will do a full reverse in trajectory now in order for those same stars to make it here on time (24/7 time quantum) for the Trib they will already have to be returning Which makes them closer than their light makes them appear. for they are still looking at light from 6000 years ago or 3000. science still hasn't really proven with mathematics that it indeed takes 10,000 years for the light to reach us. it like evolution is a theory

[MC1171611]

We obviously don't know exactly how large the stars are, nor are we certain how far they are away from us (see Kent Hovind's video on the Age of the Earth), so we cannot say for sure, but if the stars are even 1/100 of the size that we think them to be, there is absolutely no physical way that all the stars could actually fall to the earth and this mud ball survive the impacts.

Basically, I think the reference to the stars falling to earth are actually angels, since stars are almost invariably pictures of angels in the Bible. At least it's something to think about.

[Luke]

Could be a meteor shower.

[chette777]

or a STAR Storm either way stars will hit the earth God does not differentiate between stars, meteors, planets, galaxies, Plasma bursts, quantum pulses, clusters, Nebula's. he does however mention a few star groups the Pleiades, Orion and Arcturus.

Science says that our earth sits in an upside down position compared to the other planets. and I found a verse that said he turned the earth up side down. Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof. ssome say this is in reference to the Catastrophe that took place before Gen1:2 others say it was a solar shift that took placeat the time of dividing of the earth. Ge 10:25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan. But the earth was never made empty by the Lord at the flood or after. void means empty just as it was in Gen 1:2

[geologist]

Originally Posted by MC1171611

Why not? I understand that you don't recognize the Biblical support for the Gap (it's plain as the nose on my face to me), but when there is a way to believe both a Gap and hold a Young-Earth Creation viewpoint, and if it were to not contradict Scripture whatsoever, why would you refuse to acknowledge at least the possibility?

I was a staunch Hovindite (still mostly am!) back in '02-'03 or so, but a man from Bro. Sturgeon's church in Montana showed me some Scriptures that didn't mesh with the rest of the view I held. Basically, my quandary is why people simply refuse to see what the Bible so clearly says when viewed Dispensationally, simply because they think the Gap was invented to fit evolution into the Bible.

Well said. Geologic deep-time does not equal evolution. Geologic time equals geologic time. I'm distressed that Chette is saying that the fossil record was created by Noah's flood. Noah's flood (which was real) did not leave a single fossil. The fossil record explodes roughly 600 millions years in deep-time. That means things started dying on this Earth at that time, which means that Lucifer fell sometime before the fossils started accumulating.

Evolutionary theory is man's way of explaining what he observes from the past and what exists now WITHOUT the input of God's truth. The "Gap Theory" is not a compromise of God's Word to evolutionary theory. On the contrary, it opens up a more perfect understanding of all things Biblical.

When we are dealing with an eternal God, with no beginning or end, and with angels and cherubs who were created by God long before the earth was created (at least 5 billion years), why can't we accept that such great time spans are certainly possible? Such does not contradict my King James Bible in the least way, nor does take anything away from the center of the Bible's whole story, the Lord Jesus Christ...past...present...and future. Why even look at silly things like time dilation and changes in the speed of light when such mental acrobatics are totally unnecessary.

The plain truth is right there, in our Bible, right in our faces.

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by geologist

Well said. Geologic deep-time does not equal evolution. Geologic time equals geologic time. I'm distressed that Chette is saying that the fossil record was created by Noah's flood. Noah's flood (which was real) did not leave a single fossil. The fossil record explodes roughly 600 millions years in deep-time. That means things started dying on this Earth at that time, which means that Lucifer fell sometime before the fossils started accumulating.

What a load of gibberish. The Bible is CLEAR that:

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5:12 KJV)

Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. (James 1:15 KJV)

For the wages of sin is death; (Romans 6:23a KJV)

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; (Romans 5:17 KJV)

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. (Romans 5:14 KJV)

Your heresy puts death and sin before Adam. You need to repent of this my friend. There was NO sin or death before Adam. Also, you need to put down the darwinian monkey men text books and get into the Bible. There are no "millions and millions" in God's Book.

For Jesus' sake,
Stephen

[geologist]

Originally Posted by stephanos

What a load of gibberish. The Bible is CLEAR that:

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5:12 KJV)

Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. (James 1:15 KJV)

For the wages of sin is death; (Romans 6:23a KJV)

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; (Romans 5:17 KJV)

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. (Romans 5:14 KJV)

Your heresy puts death and sin before Adam. You need to repent of this my friend. There was NO sin or death before Adam. Also, you need to put down the darwinian monkey men text books and get into the Bible. There are no "millions and millions" in God's Book.

For Jesus' sake,
Stephen

You need to get the beam out of your own eye, brother.