[Winman]

Well, they had the scriptures, but it is hard to know if they could put them together.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

So here they were told a child would be born, who would be God himself. That must have been difficult to understand. And the cross is not seen here.

His betrayal by Judas was foretold.

Zech 11:12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD

Before Pilate

Isa 50:6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.

Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

The cross

Zech 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.


Of course, hindsight is 20/20, it is easy for us now to understand these prophesies. But there is no way to know what Old Testament saints understood.


And I think that prophesies in the future will be the same. We might imagine we know what is going to happen in the future, but it may be very different than we conceive.

[MC1171611]

A very good chart outlining what the prophets saw is HERE.

If you have access to Clarence Larkin's "Dispensational Truth," check out the chart on page 7 1/2.

[chette777]

Larkin's chart is based on what Larkin thought not on Scripture. All Scripture used was from his view not the OT Saints view. MC1171611, the original chart has some text on it missing from your posted chart.

Isa 5o, 51, 53 jer 23, zach 9 and any other OT SCriptures that prophecy of Christ were not understood by them according to Peter (see original post). 1Peter 1:10-12

What we are looking for is OT teaching that they indeed understood they were looking forward to calvary. for this is the false claim.

the only teaching found in Scripture that would teach a backward look and a forward look was for Christians in 1Cor 11. when they partake of the communion they looked back in remembrance of the cross and forward to his return. but never does the OTsaint say they looked forward tot ehcross of Christ

[Kiwi Christian]

Originally Posted by Winman

And I think that prophesies in the future will be the same. We might imagine we know what is going to happen in the future, but it may be very different than we conceive.

I don't think we are in the same boat as the OT saints when it comes to knowing/not knowing prophecy. We have MUCH more than they ever had, including the complete revelation of God to man contained in the Bible (where a number of mysteries, including the church, were revealed to Paul), and the indwelling Holy Spirit who interprets the scripture and guides us in to all truth. I don't "imagine" I know what will happen in the future, I KNOW because it's spelled out in black and white. The rapture of the church, the tribulation, the millennial reign of Jesus Christ on a regenerated earth, Satan being chained for 1000 years and then leading a final rebellion, the great white throne judgment, the new heaven & earth, are all going to happen just as God says they will.

[MC1171611]

Originally Posted by chette777

Larkin's chart is based on what Larkin thought not on Scripture. All Scripture used was from his view not the OT Saints view. MC1171611, the original chart has some text on it missing from your posted chart.

Isa 5o, 51, 53 jer 23, zach 9 and any other OT SCriptures that prophecy of Christ were not understood by them according to Peter (see original post). 1Peter 1:10-12

What we are looking for is OT teaching that they indeed understood they were looking forward to calvary. for this is the false claim.

the only teaching found in Scripture that would teach a backward look and a forward look was for Christians in 1Cor 11. when they partake of the communion they looked back in remembrance of the cross and forward to his return. but never does the OTsaint say they looked forward tot ehcross of Christ

I was simply posting more proof that they DIDN'T know. There is no proof that they did, as that chart (and its original) show. Larkin's charts are almost always airtight and Biblically accurate.

[chette777]

Oh my bad, MC171611

[MC1171611]

Originally Posted by chette777

Oh my bad, MC171611

No foul, no harm.

[premio53]

Originally Posted by chette777

OkAny body have any OT verses that clearly teach that OT saint under law or any other dispensation KNEW about Christ coming to die on the cross for their sin?

Why does it matter? The bible plainly says that they were justified by faith without works.

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by premio53

Why does it matter? The bible plainly says that they were justified by faith without works.

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

I would say it matters because people (perhaps most) on this forum simply wish to rightly divide the word of truth. Brother Chette emphasized the word "KNEW" when asking his question. We can clearly see the Old Testament prophecies concerning Christ because we know the Christ they refer to. It was hidden...a mystery to be revealed in time...they certainly did not clearly understand or KNOW the gospel of Christ as we do. In my understanding, the Old Testament saint was not saved by believing in the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ. But they were indeed saved by believing God.

I too agree with the scripture...Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

[Fredoheaven]

Moses who wrote the book of Genesis might agree he's looking forward but not certain to Christ death on the cross. That's why through faith, he kept the passover and did a sprikling of blood. What Moses did was a certain practice for a coming perfect sacrifice of Christ at Calvary.

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Hebrews 11:28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

The best guess i can give so far bro. chette.