Originally Posted by BrianT

Combining these concerns with the posts directed personally at me in this thread, I must ask: if some of you consider me a "heretick" for not accepting KJV-onlyism, does that mean some of you consider being KJV-only a requirement of salvation?

I think we can all agree that people who have entire websites and/or forums dedicated to teaching "an inerrant Bible has never existed" can be stumbling blocks to salvation. If you were a new convert who was merely asking questions out of ignorance that would be one thing, but your site attacks our KJV views 24/7/365, gets an average of 1427 views per day, and seems to provide a public platform for hundreds of sarcastic KJV critics. I think this is exactly what is causing the negativity you are getting here, because many of us find that notion to be an offensive and dangerous false teaching, and you seem to do it as a routine event, like eating Corn Flakes.

For many here, spreading the idea of teaching God-thirsty people their Bible contains errors is kind of like handing out crack at an elementary school, only worse because of the long term spiritual impact it can have on trusting people who seek Truth. It's the exact opposite of everything this forum stands for.

As you move from thread to thread, and attempt to "blend in," your leaven goes with you, and although you may have decent intentions, the idea of you questioning and talking about the "problems" you have with a pro-KJV member's post (as you are attempting to do here) is as senseless and absurd as a screen door on a submarine. I think it's sad that someone in your position can't see the harm in what you do. What is your denomination?

[stephanos]

Thank you brother George for this much needed write up. I have a question though which I always mean to ask or look into, but always forget. What does Paul mean when he speaks of 'uncleanness'? Being clean was such a huge aspect of his previous religion. Could he be speaking of OT cleanliness in any sense?

Peace and Love,
Stephen

[George]

Originally Posted by stephanos

Thank you brother George for this much needed write up. I have a question though which I always mean to ask or look into, but always forget. What does Paul mean when he speaks of 'uncleanness'? Being clean was such a huge aspect of his previous religion. Could he be speaking of OT cleanliness in any sense?

Peace and Love,
Stephen

Aloha brother Stephen,

The best way (that I know of) would be to take SwordSearcher and check out all 40 verses with the word "uncleanness" in them. I believe that a review of these verses will show that the word has various "shades" of meaning - depending where it is being used (Context). For example in the Old Testament:

UNCLEANNESS = An unclean thing; a dead carcase; the body of a man [Leviticus 5:3; Numbers 19:13]; Eating the wrong thing [Leviticus 7:20-21]; a running sore - Leprosy, etc. [Leviticus 15:3]; a woman's period [Leviticus 15:26-30; Leviticus 18:19; 2 Samuel 11:4]; various "kinds" of uncleanness [Leviticus 15:31; Leviticus 16:16, 19; Leviticus 22:3]; touching any "creeping" thing [Leviticus 22:5]; sins of a sexual nature, i.e. fornication, adultery, etc. [Numbers 5:19; Deuteronomy 24:1] a land polluted with Idolatry and Abominations [Ezra 9:11] there are several more - but you get the idea. All of these descriptions of "uncleanness" are in relation to the Nation of Israel and The LAW -which we are not under, and have no relation to a born again child of God.


For example in the New Testament:

UNCLEANNESS = the body of a man [Matthew 23:27] - {Remember, the LAW is still in effect - this is still in relation to Israel, since it is before the Cross}; Idolatry and sins of a sexual nature, i.e. fornication, adultery, sodomy, lesbianism, etc. [Romans 1:24-27; 2 Corinthians 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5 ]; various kinds of uncleanness [Ephesians 4:19; 1 Thessalonians 2:3, 4:7; 2 Peter 2:10]; and see below - Romans 1:24-32.

There may be some "overlap" in some of these verses, but I think that the "division" is correct.


UNCLEANNESS could also "possibly" be:

Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
. . . . . . . .
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

As you can see, "rightly dividing the word of truth" takes not only "knowledge", but it also requires discernment, understanding, and wisdom. All of which the Holy Spirit gives us in our pursuit of the "Truth". But we must approach the Scriptures with an honest and good heart and a contrite spirit:

Luke 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Isaiah 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

I hope this may be of some help to you brother.

Hi Bro. Parrish,

Can you actually stay on topic and answer my questions? Thanks.

Brian

[MC1171611]

Originally Posted by BrianT

Hi Bro. Parrish,

Can you actually stay on topic and answer my questions? Thanks.

Brian

Someone being a heretic or teaching heresy doesn't mean that they are lost, and people get saved out of Bible perversions all the time.

Being a heretic or teaching heresy means that God is not going to bless you or your ministry as far as the heresy goes, and I believe that Peter's "damnable heresies" are a step above (or below, so to speak) simple "heresy"; perhaps those are the falsehoods that cause cults like the LDS, JWs or Christian Science and not only mislead people but put thousands or millions of them in Hell.

Questioning and casting doubt upon His words is undoubtedly in the "damnable heresies" category, if that answers your question.

Again: why are you still here? "Only by pride cometh contention."

Originally Posted by BrianT

Hi Bro. Parrish,

Can you actually stay on topic and answer my questions? Thanks.

Brian

Actually I was on topic, your forum seems to fit the topic perfectly.
I already categorized all your questions under "Proverbs 26:4."
How about you answer MY question, I'll ask it a second time:
what is your denomination?

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by George

Aloha brother Stephen,

... stuff...

I hope this may be of some help to you brother.
[/FONT]

Yeah, I think that uncleanness can be referring to many things, but Paul also wrote:

I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. (Romans 14:14 KJV)

So I think it's fair to say that Paul can be a bit confusing at times. Anywho, I'll look into this a bit more, and let this thread stay on topic.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

[Here Am I]

Originally Posted by BrianT

Can you actually stay on topic and answer my questions? Thanks.

"These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage." (Jude 1:16)

George's original post said that heresy is opposition to "sound Biblical doctrine". I agree with this, but I asked George "Who gets to authoritatively decide what is sound Biblical Doctrine?". His response was:

Ultimately I do, since if I don't, someone else is going to decide for me (that's the whole purpose of "studying" the word of God and seeking God's "approval" for "rightly dividing" His word.).

But I don't do these things in a vacuum or on my own, and I don't depend on "schooling"; or professional "scribes" & "scholars"; or even my own intellect. I seek out God's mind on all the issues of life (through His Holy Scriptures - which I have in my hands) and believe what is written in the Bible and act on those things that I learn from it.

George said "Ultimately I do", but I think he meant that in a personal sense and not a global sense (i.e. I don't think he meant that he gets to decide authoritatively for everyone else). The problem with this response is that it doesn't answer the question. I asked: who gets to authoritatively decide what is sound Biblical Doctrine? If George ultimately does for himself (even though he seeks out God's mind in the process) while someone else decides for themselves (who also seeks out God's mind in the process) but comes to a different conclusion, neither is authoritative. Both can call each other heretics, and neither can disprove the charge of heresy against themselves.

George's original post was good on the surface, but once thought through it implies that everyone should call everyone else a heretick at some point (unless they can demonstrate they are truly in 100% agreement on every single point of doctrine), and that even when doing so it's just a chaotic, unauthoritative mess. It's nothing but a source and excuse for schism (1 Cor 12:24) and division (Rom 16:17, 1 Cor 1:10, 1 Cor 3:3, etc.).

[MC1171611]

Again, BrianT, you have no business discussing Biblical doctrine on a site when you attack the very basis for that doctrine.

That being said, you raise valid points as far as calling any "false" teaching heresy: one cannot go through life separating from every individual with whom he has a schism in doctrine. While certain things are going to create a problem, such as the KJB issue, millennial doctrines, Salvation (obviously) and sometimes Repentance, other issues are more minor and should not be construed as a reason to part ways immediately. Heresy is unbiblical teaching: doctrines or beliefs that are contrary to Scripture. Water baptism, speaking in tongues, Universal Reconciliation, works salvation, baptism for the dead and others are heresies that should be confronted immediately in anyone that claims the name of Christ.

Again, there's a ditch on both sides of the road: Satan doesn't care which ditch you're in, as long as you're in the ditch.