[MC1171611]

The biggest hangup with Hovind and Ham and the others is that they view the Gap as an attempt to fit evolution into the Bible. As I pointed out, that is not even close to what the Gap really is. There was no death or physical life before Genesis 1:3 when God began creating the current earth.

Also, Ham doesn't believe the King James Bible, so while his science is excellent, his doctrine should be suspect.

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

Oh boy, don't get me started on the Giants, haha...

Brother Kiwi and I have had a great time talking about the Antediluvian age, I have 4 pages of links and references on the subject, for anyone wanting to explore, this is a fascinating topic for me, I have posted about discoveries in the Ohio River Valley and bones they found in Java, articles from the TIMES archives, circa 1946:

"The oldest were the biggest. From the lowest level came massive teeth and jaw bones which must have belonged to monstrous manlike creatures eight to nine feet tall and weighing 600 to 700 pounds. They were four times as big as modern man..."

"cut stone pieces on mountains in Bolivia that weigh over 900 TONS, located at an elevation of over 12,000 feet. There is a giant wharf in Puma Punka with one cut stone at 440 TONS."

"The ruins of Baalbek in Lebanon contains the amazing 1000 TON Stone of the South, which weighs approximately as much as three Boeing 747 aircraft, along with the Trilithon---giant granite stones beautifully fitted together at a height of 20 feet above present ground level. These cut stones are fitted so tightly that you cannot fit a knife or even a needle between them, and it would be a serious challenge for even today's engineers to move something like that even a short distance..."

Lots of interesting stuff, feel free to explore...
here is the link, God bless...
http://baptist1611.phpbb3now.com/vie....php?f=1&t=463

Ok, so concerning these 900 ton stones, how could even a giant move such a stone? I work in a Hitachi EX120 excavator that is well over 4 times as strong as a man, and I couldn't move such a stone with this piece of equiptment. Do people think these giants moved these stones, or do they think these monsters had some 'fallen one' knowledge on how to perform such a feat?

Peace and Love,
Stephen

[Brother Tim]

Other than the Genesis passage (where the word "angel" does not actually exist), where is it shown in the Scriptures that angels can reproduce?

Matthew 22:29-30 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

This passage CLEARLY SHOWS that marriage (implying sexual activity) is NOT a function of the angels' existence.

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Brother Tim

Other than the Genesis passage (where the word "angel" does not actually exist), where is it shown in the Scriptures that angels can reproduce?
This passage CLEARLY SHOWS that marriage (implying sexual activity) is NOT a function of the angels' existence.

This simply proves that angels are not given in marriage. Who says these fallen angels married the women they mingled with?

I think the operative words in the passage you quoted are "in heaven" and "in the resurrection".

Peace and Love,
Stephen

I will quickly chime in with this. I personally have heard both sides for the gap theory. Here is where we as Christians and bible believers should be careful reading into the Bible to much.

I have always been intrigued by this subject but the main thing is to stay on track with soul winning, bible reading, witnessing, and great fellowship.

Enough said by me I will now be quiet and go back to reading.

[Brother Tim]

Brother Stephanos, I think that marriage implies the physical. By the way, the Genesis account says that the sons of God "took them wives of all which they chose." So your sex-outside-of-marriage idea doesn't fit.

[MC1171611]

If you run a quick word search on "sons of God" in the Old Testament, you'll see within a few verses that they're definitely angels. In the New Testament, we're called the sons of God because of Christ, but that's different.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Obviously the Sons of God are supernatural beings: they presented themselves before God, and were also with God at the very beginning of the physical creation. Unless you want to create a new type of heavenly creature, they are certainly angels.

Originally Posted by stephanos

Ok, so concerning these 900 ton stones, how could even a giant move such a stone? I work in a Hitachi EX120 excavator that is well over 4 times as strong as a man, and I couldn't move such a stone with this piece of equiptment. Do people think these giants moved these stones, or do they think these monsters had some 'fallen one' knowledge on how to perform such a feat?

Peace and Love,
Stephen

Good question, and not only MOVE IT, but position it on a mountain top located at an elevation of over 12,000 feet.

I think there is some evidence there to suggest they possibly had some type of gravity lifts, electrical systems and/or a basic form of air transport. I saw a science toy in New York's Toy Fair about 10 years ago, which consisted of a magnetic device that suspended a spinning ball 5 inches off the base in mid air. I was able to put my hand under it and around it while it literally floated in air. The item was $100. Going back to the works of von Daniken (Chariots of the Gods, 1968) we have seen entire books written and cult followings based on these phenomenon. Certainly, there are a lot of quacks out there trying to make a buck off various "theories." And so the Bible believer must view all this material with discretion.

But, I don't think we have to stray far from the Bible to see something strange was going on in the Antediluvian age. Anyone who has ever heard Bro. Ruckman's commentary on the "flying roll" of Zechariah 5, or looked at the archeological elements like the Biomorphs and Geoglyphs of Nazca realizes it could be construed that modern man might not have been the first to take to the skies.

Even without gravity-countering technology or aircraft, some of the archeological evidence would be more easily explained if the men who moved these things were 10-15 feet tall (or bigger) and highly intelligent. That's what my other thread is all about.

All I am suggesting is there are some things in the ancient world (like the Nephilim) which we have only begun to understand and may never really know about until the Lord shows us later.

"...The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature. And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight." Numbers 13:32-33

Here are a couple of links from my other thread:
http://www.world-mysteries.com/mpl_5b3.htm
http://www.sacredsites.com/americas/...iahuanaco.html

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

Good question, and not only MOVE IT, but position it on a mountain top located at an elevation of over 12,000 feet.

I think there is some evidence there to suggest they possibly had some type of gravity lifts, electrical systems and/or a basic form of air transport. I saw a science toy in New York's Toy Fair about 10 years ago, which consisted of a magnetic device that suspended a spinning ball 5 inches off the base in mid air. I was able to put my hand under it and around it while it literally floated in air. The item was $100. Going back to the works of von Daniken (Chariots of the Gods, 1968) we have seen entire books written and cult followings based on these phenomenon. Certainly, there are a lot of quacks out there trying to make a buck off various "theories." And so the Bible believer must view all this material with discretion.

But, I don't think we have to stray far from the Bible to see something strange was going on in the Antediluvian age. Anyone who has ever heard Bro. Ruckman's commentary on the "flying roll" of Zechariah 5, or looked at the archeological elements like the Biomorphs and Geoglyphs of Nazca realizes it could be construed that modern man might not have been the first to take to the skies.

Even without gravity-countering technology or aircraft, some of the archeological evidence would be more easily explained if the men who moved these things were 10-15 feet tall (or bigger) and highly intelligent. That's what my other thread is all about.

All I am suggesting is there are some things in the ancient world (like the Nephilim) which we have only begun to understand and may never really know about until the Lord shows us later.

"...The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature. And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight." Numbers 13:32-33

Here are a couple of links from my other thread:
http://www.world-mysteries.com/mpl_5b3.htm
http://www.sacredsites.com/americas/...iahuanaco.html

I don't believe an anti-gravity device is possible. Perhaps through the use of magnetics they could accomplish this feat, but that is a stretch. But anywho, I do believe that these beings had technology that would seem out of place if discovered by archaeologists today, but nothing to far stretch. Look at the giant Goliath and the technology he wore when he went to fight against Israel.

1 Samuel 17:4-7 And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span. And he had an helmet of brass upon his head, and he was armed with a coat of mail; and the weight of the coat was five thousand shekels of brass. And he had greaves of brass upon his legs, and a target of brass between his shoulders. And the staff of his spear was like a weaver's beam; and his spear's head weighed six hundred shekels of iron: and one bearing a shield went before him.

This was one of those giants, but you don't seem him with anything to out of place (although I am curious if mail was an armor type in use back then). Another thing that I can't seem to make sense of is the brass. You posted a link on baptists1611 with that iron hammer that lacked any bubbles. Truly a remarkable find, that I would like to look into more. But here is the kicker, if these monsters could work iron that was stronger than ours (because if it lacked bubbles it would be much stronger than our iron) why on earth would it armor itself in brass? But then this brings us to the spears head. Do we know that iron was in use back then? Clearly this creature had access to iron. Maybe it was extremely rare, and thats why only his spear was made out of it (iron was very expensive and hard to get ahold of even in the iron age and was reserved for the most critical parts of weapons and armor).

Peace and Love,
Stephen

EDIT: On second thought, I don't think 'chain' mail was around back then, but if you look at the breast piece that the High Priests wore in the Temple, then it would lead me to believe that this sort of mail was used elsewhere. This of course is all speculation on my part.

[MC1171611]

400 AD: "Powder that explodes?? Are you insane?!"

1600 AD: "Steam WHAT? Pull huge loads without horses?? Idiot."

1800 AD: "Fly? 'Aeroplanes'?? Who let YOU out of the insane asylum?"

1900 AD: "Space Ships? Ignorant fool!"


If we take the Biblical view that the "Nephilim" were the direct descendants of supernatural, angelic beings, then why is it so far of a stretch to think that they had technology beyond our imagination? We barely have the technology to build the Great Pyramid, and that thing's been around for possibly 4,000+ years! Remember, these creatures (Sons of God, angels) inhabited inter-dimensional space and time in their supernatural form: we have no clue what technological capabilities these guys had!

Silver-cell battery found in Iraq, curved holes through ginormous rocks (we STILL can't do that!!), crazy mechanical computing devices found in an extremely ancient Black Sea shipwreck; there was way more to the "Old World" than we could imagine. Think: we've had basically 400 years or so since the Catholic church's stifling influence abated; we've already put men on the moon, created nuclear technology, explored every corner of the globe and have geosynchronous navigation technology. Say you give a bunch of people with 900+ year life spans three times as many years, not to mention a perfect environment and incredible natural resources. THEN add to that the Sons of God that showed up, and you have the potential for some incredible technology, the likes of which we've never imagined!!