Does the Bible's condemnation of witchcraft, necromancy, etc. have a valid application in today's society?
I am fully aware of occultic activity, the Wiccans, and all their "friends" including Masonry, etc.
But how about Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings" trilogy?
What about "THe Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe"?
What about "Star Wars" and its use of "The Force"?
What about Harry Potter?

Are these appropriate reading/viewing materials for Bible-Believing Christians?
Is it "fair" to label these as "magic"?

I am curious to know what the folks think about the latter four, since they are so prevalent in today's society. I have my views, but I would like to hear some of yours first, if y'all don't mind!

Thanks in advance,

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Steve Schwenke

Does the Bible's condemnation of witchcraft, necromancy, etc. have a valid application in today's society?
I am fully aware of occultic activity, the Wiccans, and all their "friends" including Masonry, etc.
But how about Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings" trilogy?
What about "THe Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe"?
What about "Star Wars" and its use of "The Force"?
What about Harry Potter?

Are these appropriate reading/viewing materials for Bible-Believing Christians?
Is it "fair" to label these as "magic"?

I am curious to know what the folks think about the latter four, since they are so prevalent in today's society. I have my views, but I would like to hear some of yours first, if y'all don't mind!

Thanks in advance,

My view is this: Christians have a certain degree of liberty in regards to the things they participate in. BUT that being said, the thing to keep in mind when deciding whether something is a healthy Christian activity or not is forseeing the consequences endorsing an activity might have on the weak in faith. What kind of message do we want to convey to children by endorsing books/movies that make witchcraft look like fun etc? Do we really want our children running around pretending to be little Hermione Grangers and Harry Potters casting spells on eachother? Do we want that childhood memory to stay with them when they get older and hear about real witchcraft, and are exposed to the seduction it has? Everything has a consequence, and everything we endorse sets a precedent in the eyes of young people and young Christians.

For Jesus' sake,
Stephen

[Jeremy]

Hebrews 13 v8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever. 9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.

God hasn't changed,therefore what is said about witchcraft is still a valid application. Satan influences us with visuals, in order to get us to sin. God gave us free will,we can either act on those thoughts and sin, or let them go and obey Him. Watching can also be a stumbling block to others,but,so could the music we listen,Television Shows or even the way we conduct ourselves on a daily basis.

Romans 14 v13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

[Here Am I]

If a book/movie glorifies Satan, then I would say not to read it/watch it.

Personally, I rarely watch movies, but when I do, I am choosy about what I put before my eyes. I avoid movies that have a lot of profane language, or sex scenes.

And if a book/movie (or even music!) gets between me and my Lord, then I put it away from me. For that reason, I no longer listen to rock and roll.

I recently re-read The Lord of the Rings, and enjoyed it. It did not pull me away from my Bible, or lessen my worship of the Lord, so I would read it again, perhaps. Other books I used to love to read I have thrown away, because of the content: an anti-Christian bias.

[Traditional Anglican]

Whatever does not come from faith is sin. I have a background in English Lit. so, I have read Lewis and Tolkien, I just take it with a grain of salt. I take is fiction, plain and simple. Blessings.

[MC1171611]

If you study magic out in the Bible, the supernatural power which is forbidden is that which is derived from demonic forces or Satan. Obviously, God doesn't operate through spells and potions, but through Divine Power, so the real-world application of "magic" is ungodly and unbiblical and should be eschewed by Christians with all vehemence.

On the other hand, however, the fantasy world is rather far removed from reality. In Lewis' "The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe," for example, magic is similar to "the Force" in Star Wars; not a spiritual power, but one harnessed by those spiritual powers (or human) for good or evil. Obviously this is not even remotely close to necromancy (zombies) or sorcery (witch at Endor) which is forbidden in the Bible; the fantasy "magics" are many times simply a force like electricity: useful and able to be harnessed for human use. In Lewis' books, the "Deep Magic" was similar, in his allegorical works, to the Law of God, in my opinion. A traitor, according to the law, was to be killed, but the "Deep Magic" allowed that a perfect substitute could willingly give his life for that of the traitor, and the power of evil would be broken.

Now Lewis was far from a sound theologian, and many of his books are allegorically groundless, but in this example (and the astounding last-days prophecy in "The Last Battle for Narnia") the "magic" was simply a way for him to express the allegorical power of God, or perhaps the Law, to children who would read his books.

I think it is the same with Lord of the Rings: there are good "wizards" and there are bad "wizards"; these characters use powers that are more similar to what could be called sorcery, but these powers are more like elemental or residual forces, not spirits and devils.

Calling "the Force" witchcraft is rather comical to anyone who is really acquainted with the Star Wars saga. Yes, it shares a lot of similarities with New Age "life force" ideology, and perhaps is even derived from that, but there is little in Star Wars that could be likened to Biblical witchcraft.

Harry Potter? Dumb question. That's sorcery right out of Deuteronomy. I watched the first movie and part of the second, simply out of curiosity (and to know what they were about), and I must say (apart from the deplorable acting and stupid story lines) that Hogwarts (and their homosexual headmaster) is nothing but a tool to integrate demonic powers and ungodly spirituality into young children. Any Christian that allows their children to watch that trash is an idiot; if a mature Christian wishes to watch them to better discuss them with someone who is deceived by it, then that's between you and God. I'm not going to tell you what you can and can't do.

Now I'm not saying that any of the above-mentioned materials are "wholesome" other than for pure literary value (except Harry Potter!!). I would have no problem with my 8-10 year-old children reading The Chronicles of Narnia and perhaps my 12-14 year-olds reading The Lord of the Rings, but again it's for literary value alone. However, that's at the parents' discretion, and between them (or you) and the Lord. I don't deign to tell people what is right and wrong (other than what is clearly spelled out in Scripture), as should no one, so if you think that any of the books or movies above are wrong, then by all means avoid them. I simply wish to explain my viewpoint and why I don't think that Christians' most maligned series are bad.

Originally Posted by Here Am I

If a book/movie glorifies Satan, then I would say not to read it/watch it.

Personally, I rarely watch movies, but when I do, I am choosy about what I put before my eyes. I avoid movies that have a lot of profane language, or sex scenes.

And if a book/movie (or even music!) gets between me and my Lord, then I put it away from me. For that reason, I no longer listen to rock and roll.

I recently re-read The Lord of the Rings, and enjoyed it. It did not pull me away from my Bible, or lessen my worship of the Lord, so I would read it again, perhaps. Other books I used to love to read I have thrown away, because of the content: an anti-Christian bias.

So wizardry is not anti-Christian???

[Kiwi Christian]

Originally Posted by Steve Schwenke

Does the Bible's condemnation of witchcraft, necromancy, etc. have a valid application in today's society?

Yes, I believe it does. It is a portal to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils, and if you open yourself up to it the god of this world will blind your mind.

Originally Posted by Steve Schwenke

Are these appropriate reading/viewing materials for Bible-Believing Christians?
Is it "fair" to label these as "magic"?

I think it's fair to label them as such, yes. They are not appropriate for any Christian, young or mature in the faith. The subtlety which Satan uses in these stories is so crafty that even the mature Christian can be deceived by it. Best policy for the Christian, just like with alcohol, is to abstain from it, IMO.

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by Steve Schwenke

Does the Bible's condemnation of witchcraft, necromancy, etc. have a valid application in today's society? I am fully aware of occultic activity, the Wiccans, and all their "friends" including Masonry, etc.

But how about Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings" trilogy?
What about "THe Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe"?
What about "Star Wars" and its use of "The Force"?
What about Harry Potter?

Are these appropriate reading/viewing materials for Bible-Believing Christians?
Is it "fair" to label these as "magic"?

I am curious to know what the folks think about the latter four, since they are so prevalent in today's society. I have my views, but I would like to hear some of yours first, if y'all don't mind!

Thanks in advance,

Hello Brother Steve (from a fellow Texan down in Houston). This is a great question. And one that will surely "label" those who give an answer. I hope no one holds my particular view and answer against me.

Are these appropriate reading/viewing materials for Bible-Believing Christians? Is it "fair" to label these as "magic"?

Personally, I do not think it's "fair" to label them as "magic" or "necromancy." But that's only my opinion concerning "Star Wars" and "Lord of the Rings." I have not seen/read the others you referenced. However, I do think the Holy Scriptures always have an application for us today.

I guess the key word for me is really discernment. In saying that, I support the truth that it's always wise for us to:

1 Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

That's pretty broad, I know, but the Holy Spirit will guide us through the word. Do I always avoid all appearances of evil? No, I do not. And I do not (at least try not) to "label" those who decide to read/view the materials you referenced. I cannot be their Holy Spirit.

This has been an interesting thread. Just a few reactions:

1. One's choice of literature (in the context of this thread) is a matter of Christian liberty. If I want to read Harry Potter books all night long, I'm free in Christ to do so - - - if my conscience doesn't condemn me (1 John 3:21). That's the flip-side of "liberty:" it only works if we're truly seeking God's will. Therefore, I can't read Harry Potter (not that I'd want to); but neither can I say that a brother who reads it is sinning against God. I will say that he's asking for trouble, corrupting his mind, and providing ground for possession by unclean spirits. But I'm not going to say that any Christian who reads such tripe is out of fellowship with God: he or she might simply be stupid. It grieves me, truly grieves me, that my eldest son is raising his kids on Harry Potter; but his mother (to whom I am no longer married, Diligent, so I'm not airing my dirty laundry) raised him on the Narnia books. I do not view this as coincidence. If I knew then what I know now ..... well, that way lies madness!

2. I have seen a number of people, including at least one person in this forum (not myself), influenced toward Christ by C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity." His "Screwtape Letters" is well-done and inoffensive, and provides some good insights. However, I have (recently) studied the symbolism and mythical elements of the Narnia books, and I'm convinced that they are straight out of Hell, and entirely based on pagan myths, some of which are utterly filthy. His inclusion of Bacchus (the god of wine) and the maenids (promiscuous female spirits, the female equivalents of satyrs) should be reason enough to make the books off-limits for children (even though they won't know what they're reading, the subconscious references will stick). And I have read every autobiographical book Lewis ever wrote, and many biographies written by others, and even the books of his letters; and I see absolutely no reason to think that he was a saved man. In his theological works, he expressed belief in purgatory, prayers to the dead (not necromancy, but Catholic-type stuff), and likened the Lord Jesus Christ to the heathen god Apollo. And he very explicitly rejected the divine inspiration of Scripture. Remember, Lewis' literary specialty was myth: this stuff didn't get into his head, or his children's books, by accident. When he had adorable little Lucy frolicking with the drunken satyrs and maenids in the Narnia books, he knew exactly what he was doing.

3. If you're going to really look for necromancy in popular culture, it doesn't stop with Tolkien; in all of the modern (post-1960s) Superman movies and TV shows, Superman regularly communes with his dead father. But I wouldn't say that watching a Superman movie is quite on the same level as consulting a medium. We've got to use common sense in this thing.

4. I read a lot of fiction, and some of you might not approve of some of it. (None of it is occult stuff.) But I'm a grown man, and I know what I'm doing. The Narnia and Potter books are terrible stuff, because they're aimed at kids. If I were a pastor, I'd preach against them; but I wouldn't discipline a church member who read them, or gave them to his/her children.

We've gotta give the Holy Spirit some room to work. And we really should, as much as possible, try to overlook our brethren's shortcomings, as Christ overlooks so many of ours.