[Luke]

I despise the doctrines of Calvinism. I do not despise Calvin himself, or Knox, or Luther or Augustine or any man, but the actual doctrines of "grace", I find dispicable.

But, I had a thought, and I wonder if there are any calvinists that believe this.

Pretend I am a calvinist for the next few paragraphs.

All men on earth were ordained to either life or death before the foundation of the world.

All the elect are children of God, even before they are saved. The reprobate are of their father, the devil.

The Bible says this

Mat 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

These children had angels in heaven, which behold the face of the father.

What about the unregenerate? the non-elect?

Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Of course the reprobate would have wormish spiritual bodies, they are of their father the devil.

Now look at this verse

1Ti 5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

Why don't calvinists follow through to this logical extreme?

All the elect have spirit bodies in heaven already, and are born of the Heavenly Father, God, and all the reprobate have wormish spirit bodies, and are born of their father, the devil.

Which would bring us to mormonism.

Luke, I was a Presbyterian for the first 13 years of my Christian life; I became a Baptist after "discovering" the KJB, and receiving some good teaching. I regret to tell you, on the basis of experience, that some Calvinists do take this to its logical conclusion, and accept it as sound doctrine. They are perfectly comfortable - - - no, that's not fair; they're perfectly willing - - - to talk about non-elect babies and non-elect angels and all sorts of stuff.

The "good" Calvinists, however, believe that any baby who dies is, by definition, elect. Give them that much credit. As for the angels ... well, they're not too concerned.

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by Luke

Mat 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

Brother Luke, I'm not telling you anything you do not already know. But the committed Calvinist will always adjust the scripture through the clouded lens of false, and damnable, doctrine to read: "Take heed that ye despise not one of these [elected, chosen, foreordained, predestinated] little ones...." who really have no will to choose without God choosing for them through spiritual regeneration that must occur before they can believe and receive Christ.

Isn't that quietism? That religious mysticism which teaches that perfection and spiritual peace are attained by annihilation of the will and the passive absorption of God and divine things.

You know they teach that the "whosoever" of John's Gospel, is also "limited" to those who were "elected, chosen, foreordained, predestinated" to receive eternal life. The words whole, every, and all are also limited to the Calvin elect.

We simply tell the truth faithfully and earnestly, trusting the Holy Spirit to open their eyes. But, be assured, they say the same thing about us. Nevertheless, "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction" (2 Peter 2:1). Oh yeah, I forgot, they denied Him because they had no choice but to deny Him! Sorry.