[MPeak]

With the KJV as my bible of choice, though I have not quite moved to KJV only, I wonder if perhaps our current technology level and scholarship libraries have made us a little arrogant.

For example, the early church fathers indicated that the Gospel of Mark was written by Mark and after Matthew, making it the second gospel written, as it is placed in the Bible. This tradition has been with the church for well over a thousand years. Suddenly, in the past century, we think that "Mark" was the first gospel written and claim we do not know who wrote it, all based on the latest science, biblical scholarship and archeology. And we also doubt that the last few verses of Mark's gospel are actually legitimate, like the passage of the woman caught in adultery in John 8.

I wonder if perhaps we are producing new translations and new study bibles based on the assumption that we somehow know better than those from whom the church has received its traditions.

It would seem arrogant to say that Christians in the distant past, like our early church fathers, were somehow ignorant or uneducated compared to Christians of today. After all, they lived within a century or two of the events whereas we are a thousand years plus removed. I would say they just might know better than us who wrote what.

[Luke]

Who is this "we" and "us" you speak of.

I haven't done or said any of that stuff.

Mark is written by Mark. I figured that out when I was 5, and unsaved.

I've never doubted the last 9 verses of Mark, even when the University Chaplain said "we aren't going to study them because they aren't in the originals". That was one of the catalysts for me studying out why he was wrong.

I'm not producing any new translations.

As for knowing better, yeah, we (we, as in Bible believers) do, since the early church fathers went bonkers with tradition, works salvation, scripture canon, and the reformers brought us back to faith alone and scripture alone (yet still clinging to catholic ideas such as covenant theology and amillennialism), and the brethren brought back dispensationalism. But those truths were revealed via the Holy Spirit and the King James text, not science and archaelogy.

[MPeak]

Forgive me the use of "us" and "we."

I must admit the doctrine of the KVJ English itself being inspired is very new to me. I have never heard a preacher or minister or teacher talk of the English being inspired. The Hebrew sure, the Greek maybe, but the English?

I read this idea on the AV1611.com site and it forced me to ask whether inspiration applies to originals only or to translations as well. Most of what I have been taught, I have recently come to realize, was based the idea the KJV is the Word of God translated and preserved by man, but not inspired by God.

I am still not sure about the idea that the KJV is inspired, but am seeking God in prayer on this idea.

[George]

Originally Posted by MPeak

Forgive me the use of "us" and "we."

I must admit the doctrine of the KVJ English itself being inspired is very new to me. I have never heard a preacher or minister or teacher talk of the English being inspired. The Hebrew sure, the Greek maybe, but the English?

I read this idea on the AV1611.com site and it forced me to ask whether inspiration applies to originals only or to translations as well. Most of what I have been taught, I have recently come to realize, was based the idea the KJV is the Word of God translated and preserved by man, but not inspired by God.

I am still not sure about the idea that the KJV is inspired, but am seeking God in prayer on this idea.

Aloha MPeak,

Please check out this Thread on The Inspiration of Scripture.

The articles were written by Moses LemuelRaj from India and Posted by me (with his permission).

I believe that these essays represent the position that some (including me) King James Bible believers (but not all) hold. It is the belief that the "words" of God themselves are "inspired" not just the original "languages", or just the "original autographs" in the "original languages"; but the very "words" themselves - regardless of the language.

Brother Moses has written one of the best articles, that I have ever read in over 40 years, explaining Scriptural Inspiration - according to the Scriptures themselves, and not according to some scholarly "construct", that is according to the wisdom of the world. [1 Corinthians 2:1-16]

I hope that this may be of some help in your search for the truth.

If you care to explore a little further - I have several Threads and/or Posts concerning the subject of the King James Bible issue. The following "Links" are to two of the main ones:

A short overview of the issue:
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...3&postcount=69

Why I believe the King James Bible is the word of God:
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...78&postcount=1

Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

[Luke]

MPeak, sorry...

I probably came across a bit rude in my first post.

Forgive me for that. Hope you find the truth you are looking for

God bless

[peopleoftheway]

Originally Posted by Luke

MPeak, sorry...

I probably came across a bit rude in my first post.

Forgive me for that. Hope you find the truth you are looking for

God bless

I think Brother, that in light of the joins we get on this forum once or twice a week with men and women maligning the word of God, posing fruitless questions and scorning our belief that God has perfectly preserved his word in one place, we can tend to be a little bit hesitant in new posts, especially when we go over old ground that sometimes becomes tiresome. However
Mpeak, I trust that your question was asked in all sincerity and as Brother George answered, the article by Brother Moses LemuelRaj is one of the best explanations of the question you asked that I personally have read.
I pray that they will be as much of a blessing to you as they were to me.


1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Originally Posted by MPeak

Most of what I have been taught, I have recently come to realize, was based the idea the KJV is the Word of God translated and preserved by man, but not inspired by God.

Just to be clear—the words of God are not preserved by MAN, they are preserved by God. Please see the verse below in red in my signature.

Originally Posted by MPeak

I am still not sure about the idea that the KJV is inspired, but am seeking God in prayer on this idea.

Please read George's links they will help you.
God has most certainly inspired AND preserved His Word for you today, so you can be thoroughly furnished...

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." - II Tim. 3:16-17

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by MPeak

Forgive me the use of "us" and "we."

I must admit the doctrine of the KVJ English itself being inspired is very new to me. I have never heard a preacher or minister or teacher talk of the English being inspired. The Hebrew sure, the Greek maybe, but the English?

I read this idea on the AV1611.com site and it forced me to ask whether inspiration applies to originals only or to translations as well. Most of what I have been taught, I have recently come to realize, was based the idea the KJV is the Word of God translated and preserved by man, but not inspired by God.

I am still not sure about the idea that the KJV is inspired, but am seeking God in prayer on this idea.

Matthew, the confusion arises when you follow the worldly definition of "inspiration", the Great Heavenly Trance the writers went into and produced the Scriptures via automatic wiring, The Oracle Of Delphi Method. This is erroneous. As you know Jesus spoke from a copy of Isaiah in Luke 4 and called it "Scripture", which, yes, was "inspired" by Paul's definition to Timothy in II Timothy 3:16 which Paul received from God Himself. God's inspiration is from nanosecond to nanosecond in that He spoke the Universe into being and holds it together by the word of His Power. He is "inspiring" 10,000 copies per second perfect copies of Adam and Eve as I write this and you read it. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the original manuscripts? If that is the case, if only the original manuscripts are "inspired", then there is no salvation since the original manuscripts of the gospel of Christ decayed.

The true fact of the resurrection of Lazarus by Jesus Christ(Lazarus later died also) and the resurrection of Jesus Christ Himself(in Who alone rests immortality) is not determined by empiric studies in biology and physiology, but by faith. It is an insult to God to accept the validity of the KJV as holy Scripture just because the manuscript evidence, which is overwhelming, leads us to. Without faith it is impossible to please God. God spoke to me through Paul's writings and said, you accept this KJV not as the words of the KJV translators but My words, and it will work effectually in you and in anyone who believes it. I once used the NASB and nothing worked in me, I used the ASV of the Church Of Christ which I was raised in, and nothing worked in me. God breathes through the KJV to those who understand English yet most of all BELIEVE IT. If He breathes through the NIV, He must have contracted emphysema.

What probably leads many to believe "KJVO"s are hardtempered hotheads is the fact the "KJVO" realizes more than anyone that we are in a war, a spiritual war. We are soldiers as Paul said we are. If I am in The Battle Of The Bulge, I do not need to know woodworking, metallurgy, chemistry, and mechanical engineering to be assured my M-1 Garand will fire and fire effectively. If another soldier, on my side, grabs my arm and says my weapon is defective because it is not the M-1 Garand prototype, has missing parts, that the German Mauser is equal or superior to it, most likely I am going to buttstroke him, bind him and turn him over to the MPs.

You must accept first the reality there are two opposing forces on this planet: fundamentalist Bible Christianity and Roman Catholicism. There is no middle ground but a netherland of fog where those who wander the wasteland between the two are shot at by both sides. You're going to have to make a decision one day to flee to the trenches of one side or the other: Either the KJV is the word of God given by inspiration, or the RC Church is the repository custodians of the Scriptures. Case closed. You are going to have to renovate from the ground up your definition of "inspiration" as I am outlining in my series on Triple Inspiration:

1. Initial revelation of His will and precepts.
2. The faithful reproduction and translation of His words from language to language, age to age, nation to nation.
3. His Spirit giving you understanding and working effectually in you to make first you spiritually alive so that you can be the footman to make others aware of Him and His words.

The smart-meat MV/Original Manuscript Fraud accuses me of teaching "double" inspiration and I am one up on them, I teach triple inspiration. because all three are Scriptural.

Grace and peace to you and my prayer is God will show you the light on His words just as He did me.

Tony