[Mind and Body]

Hi, I am new here, but, since most everyone here is a Protestant who disagrees with Catholicism, I want a definitive answer, with Biblical evidence. I am a Baptist myself, but I am not convinced that Roman Catholics are damned. If anyone here thinks that they are, then will you please tell me why? Because Chick and the like say that they are.

[Fredoheaven]

Originally Posted by Mind and Body

Hi, I am new here, but, since most everyone here is a Protestant who disagrees with Catholicism, I want a definitive answer, with Biblical evidence. I am a Baptist myself, but I am not convinced that Roman Catholics are damned. If anyone here thinks that they are, then will you please tell me why? Because Chick and the like say that they are.

I myself is a member of RC before I came to know Christ as my Saviour at the age of 14. I believed that all are sinners (Romans 3:23) in the sight of God whether you belong to a Prostestant Church or a Roman Catholic Church which simply means we are all damned to eternal hell. It is only because of God's grace that we are brought into life from the terrible darkness. Your question of RC if they are damned? The answer is imperatively yes when one did not accept Jesus to be His personal Saviour but no for the reason if one have already received Christ. I was saved when I am still a member of Roman Catholic Church yet God brought me into a right church when a Baptist Preacher baptized me and Praise the Lord that now I belong to a local bible believing baptist church. God blesss you in your search for the truth....

[Buck]

I would think yes, because we are not to worship none other then God himself.

Catholics pray to mother Mary. " hail Mary, mother of God forgive us our---

We are to repent to Christ for our sins per the Bible, not a priest

Catholics claim to actually eating the body and blood of Jesus Christ at Communion. The bible says to take in remembrance of me.

Baptism is to be done by submersion, the same as Christ was. It's a public show of a new birth as a Christian.

[chette777]

I agree with Kiwi you can't assume all Catholics are unsaved.

as far as their worship today. let us remember there are plenty of Born Again churches from Evangelical Charismatics to some Baptist who practice things not found in the Bible. our practice does not determine our salvation.

If a person has truly trusted Jesus as the sole means for their salvation they are saved. prayers to Mary for forgiveness would amount to nothing just as going to the confessional amounts very nothing.

there is a Charismatic group here, most have trusted Jesus for salvation but they practice barfing demons into bags and believe they can be possessed by devils. their salvation is secure but the practice in unbiblical and they would grieve the Holy Ghost so their personal spiritual growth would be slow to nill because of such practices

[Kiwi Christian]

There was an idea tossed about in our discussion the other night that some Catholics have probably gotten saved by chance, considering how simple it is to be saved by accepting the truth of the gospel as a free gift, some Catholics could have been innocently reading the Bible and the Holy Spirit spoke to their heart about their need for Christ. Not every Catholic person is devout, and many don't even know the doctrines that their religion teaches (like all cults), they are Catholic in name only and not in practise, so if there is any hope for a Catholic to be saved it would be these ones.

Martin Luther is an example of a Catholic who realised from scripture that salvation was by grace through faith and not of works, but I'm not even sure he got saved in the end? He didn't want to come out of the Catholic church, he wanted to reform it. Of course he got excommunicated in the end. Can anyone shed any more light on whether or not he got saved?

[Biblestudent]

Chick publications may be "too hard" on Roman Catholics, but they do get the job done - opening people's eyes.

I remember when we went tract distribution and cemetery preaching on a November 1st, we were handing out "The Death Cookie" with smiles pasted on our face. After giving them out, we read it and "wished" we did not gave that tract. We wondered why we kindly handed out tracts and some religious fanatics looked angrily to us. The tract was too much for them.

But no, we did not regret. One lesson we learned from that experience is to read the tracts before giving them out.

[Traditional Anglican]

Originally Posted by chette777

I agree with Kiwi you can't assume all Catholics are unsaved.

as far as their worship today. let us remember there are plenty of Born Again churches from Evangelical Charismatics to some Baptist who practice things not found in the Bible. our practice does not determine our salvation.

If a person has truly trusted Jesus as the sole means for their salvation they are saved. prayers to Mary for forgiveness would amount to nothing just as going to the confessional amounts very nothing.

there is a Charismatic group here, most have trusted Jesus for salvation but they practice barfing demons into bags and believe they can be possessed by devils. their salvation is secure but the practice in unbiblical and they would grieve the Holy Ghost so their personal spiritual growth would be slow to nill because of such practices

I think it was Luther who summed it up with the words: "There are saved people in the Roman Church....in SPITE of the Roman Church.

People are dying see the Pope...
http://www.kktv.com/news/headlines/41631902.html

[Buck]

Originally Posted by Buck

I would think yes, because we are not to worship none other then God himself.

Catholics pray to mother Mary. " hail Mary, mother of God forgive us our---

We are to repent to Christ for our sins per the Bible, not a priest

Catholics claim to actually eating the body and blood of Jesus Christ at Communion. The bible says to take in remembrance of me.

Baptism is to be done by submersion, the same as Christ was. It's a public show of a new birth as a Christian.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
AS I posted in layman words above. You must be born again by repenting to the Lord for your sins.

[George]

Originally Posted by Buck

----------------------------------------------------------------------
"AS I posted in layman words above. You must be born again by repenting to the Lord for your sins."

Aloha brother Buck,

This Post is not meant to castigate or demean you personally in any way, but - REPENTING of one's sins does not save a person, nor are they saved {born again} "by repenting to the Lord for your sins". {Catholics "repent" of their sins often, but if they depend on their "repentance" for their salvation, they are sadly mistaken.}

True Bible salvation is quite simple:

Question: WHAT must I DO to be saved? Answer: "BELIEVE ON the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved".

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

When a person "believes" on the Lord Jesus Christ - they believe the "Gospel" (as defined by the Apostle Paul):

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Repenting of our sins does NOT save us - the shed blood, and sacrificial death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord saves us. He did the "work" - it is up to us to BELIEVE that when He said "it is FINISHED", that there is NOTHING that we can DO, other than BELIEVE on His FINISHED WORK, that can save us (and that includes repenting of our sins).

When a man truly BELIEVES (in his heart) on the Lord Jesus Christ several things happen to him - amongst which are: He is "born again" of the Spirit of God:

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

When a man truly BELIEVES (in his heart) on the Lord Jesus Christ, he becomes a son of God through a supernatural operation of God's Holy Spirit:

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

There are other things that happen also - the born again child of God is "baptized" (by the Holy Spirit of God into the body of Christ; they are "circumcised with the circumcision made without hands"; they become a member of God's family; they are "sealed" by the Holy Spirit forever more; and much more.

When a person BELIEVES the "Gospel", they are not always aware of the work that God performs in them, they only BELIEVE (in their heart) in the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ for their sins. (He died in our place - and His blood paid the price that God required for an ATONEMENT for our sins.) - They BELIEVE ON the Lord Jesus Christ (PLUS NOTHING - MINUS NOTHING) that's all that is required - and that is why even a child can BELIEVE and be saved. {What sins does a child commit that need to be "repented of"?}

The "Gospel" of the Grace of God is simple - the work that God performs, the moment a person BELIEVES, is quite complicated; so much so, that many Christians "stumble" at all of the various things that God does at the moment a person becomes "born again". And I doubt if anyone fully comprehends the total operation that God performs at the moment of salvation.

As I said before salvation is simple:

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Please notice repentance is NOT a part of salvation. Some people are saved after deep repentance; others (like myself) were not so much aware of just how sinful we really were until after we were saved, and (as in my case - deep repentance occurred after I became born again). But I repeat, my repentance had NOTHING to do with God's free gift of salvation that He bestowed upon me in October 1958.

There is NOTHING that we can DO to receive God's Grace, other than BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. If there is something that we can DO to ADD to what Christ has already done (like repentance), then we are ADDING to THE FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST - which is not only Scripturally impossible, but we are, in essence, diminishing the work of Christ on the cross, and questioning whether His sacrifice is complete in and of itself.

I am a simple man. I have not attended a university; college; seminary; or Bible School. It's not necessary to go to "School" to understand the things I have said here - all one has to do is study the Scriptures. Just because I am an elder in a church doesn't make me any "different" than any other born again child of God. I do not subscribe to the "clergy"/"layman" setup that is so prevalent in many churches nowadays. If a person is genuinely saved (i.e. born again) then they have the SAME Holy Spirit abiding in them that abides in me. And as such, there is NO "Clergy" - "Layman" DIVISION between us. We are all brethren - regardless of our education, schooling, or intellect.

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

1 John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Brother, the simplicity that is in Christ is simple; God's salvation is simple; the Gospel of the Grace of God is simple {to him (or her) that believeth}. We should be extremely careful that we do not add to it, and either inadvertently or purposely take away from the finished work of Christ. {This is what most Roman Catholics "stumble" at - most of them just won't accept the fact that Christ's sacrifice on Calvary is sufficient for their salvation. They think that there must be SOMETHING (other than Believe) that they must DO themselves to get saved.}

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.