[Beltfed_0331]

I recently was visited by a man from Jehovah Witness's door knocking program. It was a short visit and began with him asking me if God would really create a place to torment people for all eternity. Especially after giving us the gift of life. I asked how he felt concerning Rev. 21:8. He proceeded to explain how the word Hell is misinterpreted in the Bible. Hell in thier minds is the grave. I am firm in my belief that God has preserved his Word for all man. I hope to place a seed in this man’s heart with the scripture. Do any of you have any suggestions for the next visit he intends to make to my house? They can sometimes frustrate me with their admitting they believe the Bible and then go on to say that word is wrong. I want to be as pleasant as possible while presenting a scriptural and intellectual argument to the ridiculous teachings he has been lead to believe.

[Kiwi Christian]

Hope the following is a help to you

The JW's have traditionally believed and taught that there is no eternal punishment for the wicked: ". . . the Bible hell is mankind's common grave..." (Let God Be True, pg. 92. )
"The doctrine of a burning hell where the wicked are tortured eternally after death cannot be true . . . ." (Let God Be True, pg. 99)

We call it to the reader's attention that it was none other than the Lord Jesus Christ who first used the term "hell fire" (Mat. 5:22), and it was Jesus Christ who said in Matthew 25:41, ". . . Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels."

A JW believes that Hell is only the grave that everyone goes to at death. He believes that the saved ones in the graves will be given eternal life on earth after the White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20:11-15, while the unsaved in the graves will be annihilated once and for all in the Lake of Fire. JW's refuse to believe that God will punish the wicked forever in the Lake of Fire. Of course, the Scriptures say something entirely different:

(1) There is no FIRE in the grave, but there certainly is fire in the "hell" of the Bible (Luk. 16:23; Deu. 32:22; Mat. 5:22; 18:9; Jas. 3:6).

(2) No one PRAYS from the grave, but they certainly do in Hell (Luk. 16:24; Jon. 2:2).

(3) Hell was originally made for the Devil and his angels (Mat. 25:41), but the grave was not.

(4) A Christian's SOUL does not go to the grave at death (Phi. 1:21-23; 2 Cor. 5:1-10; 1 Ths. 5:10). Only the BODY goes to the grave. An unsaved man's body also goes to the grave at death, but his SOUL goes to a place of TORMENT and FLAMES (Luk. 16:22-23).

(5) The grave cannot possibly be Hell because Jesus said it would be better to enter into life (eternal life) without a hand, a foot, or an eye, than to go to Hell (Mat. 18:8-9). How could it be "better" if Hell is only the grave where there is no suffering at all? According to Jesus Christ, Hell is a lot WORSE than losing a hand, a foot, or an eye forever.

(6) Annihilation cannot be true because the Bible uses such terms as "shame and everlasting contempt" (Dan. 12:2) and "torment . . . forever" (Rev. 14:11). Shame and torment are sufferings that are experienced by a LIVING BEING, not an annihilated corpse.

God is an ETERNAL Being; therefore, an eternal payment is required for sin (Mar. 9:44-48; Isa. 66:22-23). You can have a FAIR TRIAL, or you can have a FREE PARDON. In a fair trial before God, you will be eternally damned to Hell because you are a sinner against a Holy God. God will have no choice but to sentence you to Hell forever.

http://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelto...Witnesses.html

[George]

Originally Posted by Beltfed_0331

"I recently was visited by a man from Jehovah Witness's door knocking program. It was a short visit and began with him asking me if God would really create a place to torment people for all eternity. Especially after giving us the gift of life. I asked how he felt concerning Rev. 21:8. He proceeded to explain how the word Hell is misinterpreted in the Bible. Hell in thier minds is the grave. I am firm in my belief that God has preserved his Word for all man. I hope to place a seed in this man’s heart with the scripture. Do any of you have any suggestions for the next visit he intends to make to my house? They can sometimes frustrate me with their admitting they believe the Bible and then go on to say that word is wrong. I want to be as pleasant as possible while presenting a scriptural and intellectual argument to the ridiculous teachings he has been lead to believe."

Aloha Beltfed_0331,

I have found that the best way to deal with JW'S is to present them with the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ. If you try to talk with them about the Salvation, Heaven, Hell, or any of a dozen "topics" they will just give you the "run-around". The one thing they don't like to talk about is Jesus Christ, and WHO He really is.

The following outline may be of some help in presenting the Lord Jesus Christ to a Jehovahs Witness. Normally they will think up some "excuse" to leave by the time you get through 1 or 2 of the main points. Jehovahs Witnesses cannot abide by the truth!

First things first: ESTABLISH THE TRUTH ABOUT JESUS CHRIST & JEHOVAH!

Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

2Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

ASK THE QUESTION: WHO?

#1. WHO IS THE CREATOR?

#2. WHO IS OUR SAVIOUR?

#3. WHO IS THE FIRST & LAST?

#4. WHO IS IT THAT EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW & EVERY TONGUE SHALL CONFESS TO?

#5. WHO SHARE’S GOD’S GLORY?

#6. WHO IS EQUAL TO GOD?

ASK: WHO IS THE CREATOR?

ASK: Who is the Creator? = JESUS CHRIST

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

ASK: Who is the Creator? = JEHOVAH (KJB – LORD = Jehovah)

Isaiah 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Isaiah 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

ASK: Are Jesus Christ and Jehovah two Creators? (KJB – LORD = Jehovah)

Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

(These verses establish that the LORD (Jehovah) created ALONE! That is - BY HIMSELF!)

Ask again: who is the Creator?

ASK: WHO IS OUR SAVIOUR?

ASK: After each verse, Who is our Saviour? = GOD or Jesus Christ?

Titus 1:3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour; (GOD = Our Saviour)

Titus 1:4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. (JESUS CHRIST = Our Saviour)

Titus 2:10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things. (GOD = Our Saviour)

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; (JESUS CHRIST = Our Saviour)

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, (GOD = Our Saviour)

Titus3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; (JESUS CHRIST = Our Saviour)

ASK: Who is our Saviour? God or Jesus Christ? Or God & Jesus Christ?

Isaiah 49:26 And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob. (KJB – LORD = Jehovah)

ASK: Do we have two Saviours? – Jesus Christ & Jehovah? (KJB – LORD = Jehovah)

Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is nosaviour.

(These verses establish that there is no Saviour other than God. God is our ONLY Saviour!)

Ask again: Who is our Saviour?

ASK: WHO IS THE FIRST & THE LAST?

ASK: Who is the First and the Last? - CHRIST

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. (JESUS CHRIST)

Revelation 1:11Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. (JESUS CHRIST)

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: (JESUS CHRIST)

(These verses establish that the Lord Jesus Christ is the First and Last.)

ASK: Who is the First and the Last? -JEHOVAH (KJB – LORD = Jehovah)

Isaiah 48:12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. (JEHOVAH)

Isaiah 44:6Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. (JEHOVAH)

(These verses establish the LORD Jehovah as the First and the Last.)

Ask again: Who is the First and the Last?

ASK:EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW & EVERY TONGUE SHALL CONFESS TO WHO?

ASK: Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess to who? – JESUS CHRIST

Romans 14:10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

11For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. (GOD)

Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (JESUS CHRIST)

ASK: Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess to who? – JEHOVAH

Isaiah 45:22Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

23I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. (JEHOVAH – KJB – LORD = Jehovah)

Ask again: Who is it that every knee shall bow to and every tongue shall confess to?

ASK: WHO SHARE’S GOD’S GLORY?

ASK: Does God share His Glory with anyone? – JESUS CHRIST

Hebrews 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. (JESUS CHRIST receives Glory.)

Hebrews1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; (JESUS CHRIST is the Brightness of God’s Glory.)

Romans 16:27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen. (GOD gets Glory through JESUS CHRIST.)

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

(JESUS CHRIST states: That He shared God’s Glory and that God gave Him Glory!)

ASK: Does God share His Glory with anyone? (KJB – LORD = Jehovah)

Isaiah 48:10 Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.

Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

{JEHOVAH states: That He will not give His Glory to another!}

Ask again: Does God give or share His Glory with anyone?

ASK: WHO IS GOD?

ASK: Who is God? – JESUS CHRIST

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

1John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

1John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

(These verses establish that JESUS CHRIST IS EQUAL WITH GOD!).

ASK: Who is God? –JEHOVAH (KJB – LORD = Jehovah)

Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

Isaiah 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.

8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

(These verses establish there is but ONE GOD: THE LORD GOD JEHOVAH!)

Ask again: Who is God?

I have only been able to go through all six points with a Jehovahs Witness ONLY ONCE (in 1973) - that was with a young Jehovahs Witness & his wife (and they got saved!). I have never been able to go through all six points with any other Jehovahs Witness since then!

[MC1171611]

Wow Bro. George..excellent stuff!!

Beltfed_0331, also keep in mind that the JWs have their own Bible version modeled on the corrupt Catholic codices Vaticanus and Siniaticus. They've changed Jesus Christ to "a god," they've tried to replace John the Baptist as the herald of Jehovah with Jesus, and they've corrupted the relationship between Jesus and the Father throughout the whole thing.

Bro. George's list is an incredible tool when dealing with them, but like the Alexandrian Cult and the rest of the Professional Liars, the JWs' issue isn't just doctrine: it's Authority. The firmly-grounded JWs will believe their Elders over the Bible any time they find a problem, so the only way you can have an effect is to hopefully plant a seed of truth in the younger, newer one.

God bless, brother, and I hope you have good success with these guys.

[Beltfed_0331]

Yes Kiwi this was very helpful to me. I am reminded of a study concerning the sanctity of Hell. Hell glorifies the power of God. I further realized how the Christians are given the gift of heaven with incorruptible bodies, those without Christ will never be able to not sin. God is sickened by this and the punishment for being an eternal sinner is an eternal Hell.
This book you reference “Let God be True” I am thinking is a book used by JW’s?
Thank you for the link. The Trinity information was great.
Aloha George,
Our church just had a tropical theme for the sweetheart banquet. I got to use the word aloha quite often that night without being looked at as a nut here in Michigan with snow everywhere. Thank you so much for the info. I am going to take the time and reference each verse in order thru my Bible. I want them to be free from that bondage they are so locked in. They don’t see it at all most times. They come in my house and basically blaspheme God and His deity and I have not found a way to have much success with them. I lasted the entire course with one man and on each topic he brought up I would show him in scripture a logical rebuke to his dogma he would tell me the Bible was not written correctly because it actually means this. The topic of souls was a little down the road when he revealed that there is no record of our souls in heaven after we die. I showed him in Rev. Where the souls of the martyrs cried for justice. He never answered me and although he never returned I still pray that may have been a seed that would sprout. I will make it thru the points with them. I should not be defensive with them. I wait, hear what they say, and let it affect me sooner or later. I like a good offense anyway, and this should clear the room of any doubts concerning who the Creator, Savoir, First and Last, who we will confess to, share Gods glory, and who is equal to God? Great stuff. And aloha again.
MC1171611, Authority has always been the issue I have had with them as well. I spoke with my dad last night a little and he shared with me this presentation. He cordially answered the door and he invited them in to ask them a couple things. He went on to ask them about their hope. He wanted to know,” what would be required to be able to, you know, have another life or go to heaven”. The man went on to say that you must do this, and that, and be good, and this. Then asked the man if, what if I got sick, in the hospital, while medicated did some things not good? What happens then? He said that you would not make it. My dad then smiled and told him, “I got a better hope than that, can I show you the hope that is better than the hope you have now?” I thought that was a good start into the truth of scripture without the debate of scripture even coming up.
Thank you Guys for your input and help on this. I will be better equipped for the next opportunity.

[Forrest]

And of course:

Ephesians 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

I pray the Lord will give you clear utterance and power as you sow the good seed and earnestly contend for "the" faith.

[Kiwi Christian]

Originally Posted by Beltfed_0331

This book you reference “Let God be True” I am thinking is a book used by JW’s?

Yes brother, that is one of the books published and distributed by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, the driving force behind the JW's. Other works include - Reasoning from the Scriptures, The Truth Shall Make You Free, Your will Be Done on Earth, Make Sure of All Things, and The Watchtower. Their erroneous doctrines can be found throughout these writings which they hold as an authority equal, if not higher, than the bible. Of course, they have re-written their own bible, the New World Translation, which is one of the most corrupt perversions out there.

I pray you get somewhere with these deluded souls, brother, your intentions to win them over are encouraging to me!

[Jeremy]

There is alot of good information here. I have had JW visit me about 4-5 times in the last year. I explain to them about Jesus and the Trinity,but they confuse me with Jehovah. I have told them were i stand and about Salvation,but for some reason they keep coming back. Am i the only person they have to work on?
They did give me the Watchtower and leave tracts at my door. The first time they visited they had a KJ,the second time they had an NWT,I think.

[tonybones2112]

Jehovah's Witnesses invite you into a card game with a loaded deck.

The word "hell" is neither misunderstood or mistranslated. The JW teaching is. The Hebrew "sheol" does not mean literally "the grave" but "place of the dead" The literal word for "grave" in Hebrew is "k'ber" or "keber" as some spell it. The KJV translators translated "sheol" as "hell" interchangably with "grave". I trust their translation as it has worked effectually in me and in hundreds of millions of Christians in 400 years and I accept the KJV as the inspired Scripture in my language. Jesus Christ, while in the grave, went to "hell" where he preached to the saints there and also the lost and it was there he deposited the sins He bore on the cross. Once educated in dealing with JWs their belief in hell can be corrected along with their other errors.

JWs usually come in pairs: One experienced member with a trainee. You DO NOT ALLOW THEM to have the initiative in any conversation but you must always keep them on the defensive. The main topic should always be Jesus Christ and NOTHING ELSE.

There are two points that will cook their noodles and crowbar them from what they have been taught: First, you must ask them if anyone has ever seen Jehovah. They will say no. Ask them if Jesus was the physical representative of Jehovah and they will say yes, he was like an "angel". Ask them if Jesus is a mighty god or an Almighty God, they will say only Jehovah is the Almighty. Ask them if Jehovah has ever appeared and spoke to man. They will say of course not. Take them to Genesis 17:1 IN THEIR OWN BIBLES and read for them: "Abram was 99 years old and Jehovah APPEARED TO HIM AND SAID, I AM GOD ALMIGHTY."

The second point is if you get them talking about Catholics, who they will damn to hell and back. It is then you point them to the preface of THEIR bibles and ask them since they are translated from Vaticanus and other CATHOLIC manuscripts the KJV translators rejected, why are they carrying a Catholic Bible?

At this point you bid them a good day and close the door. God gave you the seed to plant, which is the word of God, others will water it, God will make it grow.

I don't allow JWs into my home, but if they are standing in the rain I go outside and stand in it with them. I witnessed to two JW women with an abcessed tooth once, I spoke, spit blood into the sink, returned to talking to them. When speaking with them you must not, again, allow them to have the initiative. I want to talk about Jesus Christ. If they try to steer to world events, the Kingdom, hell, the grave, Catholics, No, I want to talk about Jesus Christ.

Their message is deception, ours is Christ and Him crucified.

grace and peace

Tony Bones

[Kiwi Christian]

That's good stuff, brother Tony, thanks. Staying on the topic of Christ is paramount, all other ground is sinking sand.