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#1
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I am interested in knowing what the strict KJVOnly thinks about using the Greek, Hebrew and scholars.
There are articles on av1611.com that are written by scholars. There are also discussion on the Greek and Hebrew. Diligent, please do not view this as a personal affront, but why do you write the following if you are willing to use the original biblical languages and scholarly articles? This seems inconsistent. Quote:
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#2
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Bible Scholars are good. Bible Hebrew was good. Bible Greek was good.
"Thine heart shall meditate terror. Where is the scribe? where is the receiver? where is he that counted the towers?" (Isaiah 33:18). Most people are looking at the wrong scholarship today. As for the Bible original languages, "For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people." (Isaiah 28:11). One other language is set up by God. "Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them." (Isaiah 34:16). What is that book? Where is the perfect Word of God extant today? And again, "Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell? Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him." (Prov. 30:4, 5). The pure Word of God reveals God's true name, JEHOVAH. It is the Bible that has every word pure. It is the King James Bible. |
#3
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Any use of "the Greek" and "the Hebrew" (I put them in quotes because you have not identified which Hebrew and Greek) should only be in support of the received text of the Bible -- which is wholly and completely available in the King James Bible.
When I was new to this subject, I wanted to read what people who were learned in the original languages had to say about it, and this is why I think it is at least somewhat useful to offer this support on the website. I eventually matured to the point where I understand that it is not so important, because I have accepted by the logic of faith that the King James Bible lacks nothing that the originals carried -- especially authority. Now, to a more important issue: if you find any article on this web site that uses the Greek or Hebrew to "correct" the KJV, please do point it out to me. Every time you have pointed to the "originals" you have done so to undermine the KJV -- that is quite a bit different from the articles on this web site, which point to the "originals" in vindication of the KJV and against the Criticial Texts. I hope that clears it up. |
#4
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"should only be in support of the received text" That is ludicrous. Of course, I understand why you must say this, but that nullifies any real discussion of the Greek and Hebrew. There are plenty of places in the KJV that have no Greek or Hebrew behind them. God forbid....God speed. just to name a couple. |
#5
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Since the King James Bible is first an independent variety of the Received Text, it is valid as the authority on textual judgment. And second, since it is also a completely accurate sense for sense translation, the sense of the original must have been "God forbid" and "God speed", despite claims of unbelievers to the contrary. In other words, it matters not what men say the "originals" had, we have the providentially supplied Word that comes by direct link from the inspiration of the autographs all the way by unbroken lineage to the present. Our King James Bible shows us that Paul wrote "God forbid" (not of course in English).
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#6
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Hi Folks,
Many ludicrous and nonsensical notions are put forward to attempt to correct the pure Bible from 'the Greek' or 'the Hebrew' or arcane sources such as cognate languages. John Hinton has a whole series of articles exposing this nonsense with sound scholarship. To do so, obviously, he references the Hebrew or the Greek, and John has strong language background. The mistakes are often so strange that often a non-scholar can easily research and refute the modern version errors, where they have attempted to 'correct' the historic Bible in translation (this discussion is much more about translation than text). An example. Skeptics and anti-missionaries and islamists and others understandably all use the modern version translation error of Jeremiah 8:8 in order to attack the Bible (the 'liar's paradox'). A little research and discussion and you can lay out truth from falsehood. The article or post you write will, by necessity and to teach and share, mention or analyze 'the Hebrew' in some depth. (Although a significant part will be simply aspects like lexicon cross-reference within Jeremiah and contextual understanding within the chapter.) If a King James Bible believer never mucks around in that world, they will still be 100% sound, reading the pure and perfect word of God. There is absolutely no requirement for a Bible believer to know these issues. And if some of us take the time and effort to demolish strongholds, we will use the tools needed on the proper battleground. Where the errors are made by the Bible correctors, we will use our skills and also a sound mind by the grace of God to correct the errors and help share the pure and perfect word of God. And one benefit to us may be that we learn more about the word of God as we study scripture with scripture. Shalom, Steven Last edited by Steven Avery; 05-19-2008 at 06:13 AM. |
#7
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SCHOLAROLATRY
http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/fbns/fbns181.html Quote:
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#8
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1.) The English, while being birthed by several different languages, was in our King James Authorized Bible adjusted to the Greek and Hebrew by the King’s Translator’s. Hence, there is a Scriptural and spiritual connection between those languages. Not to mention, that there are in my opinion and that of Ruckman, places where the Greek and Hebrew may magnify the English text. 2.) There are many today that are taught that the King James Authorized bible is riddled with errors, particularly in regards to the Greek and Hebrew. It is our Job as King James Only’s to dispel these myths by showing that our Translator’s produce a superbly legitimate and accurate English Bible. 3.) Greek and Hebrew were both used by God far longer than the English has and therefore must not be cast aside so easily. 4.) If you go to a good English dictionary to look up words found in the Bible you will come across references to Greek and Hebrew. 5.) So we are not accused of being ignorant backwoods hillbillies. __________________________________ - “One accurate measurement is worth more than a thousand expert opinions” - “...this is the Word of God; come, search, ye critics, and find a flaw; examine it, from its Genesis to its Revelation, and find an error... This is the book untainted by any error; but is pure, unalloyed, perfect truth. Why? Because God wrote it. Ah! charge God with error if you please; tell him that his book is not what it ought to be. I have heard men, with prudish and mock-modesty, who would like to alter the Bible; and (I almost blush to say it) I have heard ministers alter God's Bible, because they were afraid of it... Pity they were not born when God lived far—far back that they might have taught God how to write.” Charles Haddon Spurgeon (Spurgeon's Sermons Volume 1: Sermon II p. 31) - “If, therefore, any do complain that I have sometimes hit my opponents rather hard, I take leave to point out that 'to everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the sun' : 'a time to embrace, and a time to be far from embracing' : a time for speaking smoothly, and a time for speaking sharply. And that when the words of Inspiration are seriously imperilled, as now they are, it is scarcely possible for one who is determined effectually to preserve the Deposit in its integrity, to hit either too straight or too hard.” Dean John William Burgon (The Revision Revised. pp. vii-viii) |
#9
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#10
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Hi Folks,
My disagreement with Matthew's view here is that he is giving a one-sided position of convenience, more theoretical than practical. When we are on a forum and somebody like Rick Norris or some of the posters here falsely claim that the King James Bible has wrongly translated this Greek or that Hebrew or the other Aramaic, many of us will take the time to carefully show the fallacies in the accusation. Readers can note this happening again and again on this forum and I can point it out on other forums as well. Yet I do not see Matthew objecting to our refutation of the false accusations, showing the improper language claims and pseudo-scholarship that is common from the anti-pure-KJB group. In fact my memory is that Matthew acknowledges and appreciates the refutations of false accusations, which posts are often very complementary to his specialty of the precision and accuracy of the English of the King James Bible. And if we did not refute the false language accusations there would be left hanging a false impression about the particular verses and words, the errors would not be corrected. It can be a stinging rebuke to the Bible correctors when they are shown to be totally in fabrication-land in their accusations, and that demonstration often involves exposing the false aspects of their appeals to the Greek and the Hebrew, or the Aramaic and Latin may come to play. To make the corrections it is imperative to do a little lexicon checking, sometimes the forums like b-hebrew and b-greek are of solid assistance. Other resources as well, with those skilled in the languages like John Hinton and Thomas Strouse being of assistance. Yet, writing as above, apparently Matthew would prefer that this playing field be vacated, and the inquiring readers be left with the sense that the King James Bible has made certain errors in translation. Leaving this vacuum I believe would be KJB-defense error. Shalom, Steven |
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