[Shofar]

Ok, yesterday I was moving through the internet looking for biblical reference when I found the link to Dial-the-Truth Ministries. Curious to look around, I notice several links referring to articles concerning the location of the lake of fire, aka hell. Interesting reading, & disturbing at the same time. However, here's my question that I hope others can share their thoughts to, because I'm a little confused now.

One of the articles: http://www.av1611.org/hell.html

This one has a segment towards the bottom of a claim that there are wailings & screams directly below us, even now. But if I'm understanding my Holy Bible correctly, I thought that souls slumber until one of two events -- the resurrection for souls that believe in Jesus Christ & keep His word & the day of judgment & the second death where they not found in the Book of Life would be cast into the lake of fire forever. This website looks like it defends the KJV, but what is the story behind that sound byte of the wailings? Are there tormented souls already in the lake of fire & if so, how is that possible?

Am I wrong? If it be true, that's enough to make my hair stand on edge for a very long time. I pray for understanding & thoughts into the matter, thanks.

[George]

Originally Posted by Shofar

"Ok, yesterday I was moving through the internet looking for biblical reference when I found the link to Dial-the-Truth Ministries. Curious to look around, I notice several links referring to articles concerning the location of the lake of fire, aka hell. Interesting reading, & disturbing at the same time. However, here's my question that I hope others can share their thoughts to, because I'm a little confused now."

One of the articles: http://www.av1611.org/hell.html

"This one has a segment towards the bottom of a claim that there are wailings & screams directly below us, even now. But if I'm understanding my Holy Bible correctly, I thought that souls slumber until one of two events -- the resurrection for souls that believe in Jesus Christ & keep His word & the day of judgment & the second death where they not found in the Book of Life would be cast into the lake of fire forever. This website looks like it defends the KJV, but what is the story behind that sound byte of the wailings? Are there tormented souls already in the lake of fire & if so, how is that possible?

Am I wrong? If it be true, that's enough to make my hair stand on edge for a very long time. I pray for understanding & thoughts into the matter, thanks. "

Aloha Shofar,

Man's "Attributes" are:

MAN'S "SUBSTANCE":
Body (our Tabernacle), Soul (our Essence), & Spirit (our Life)

MAN'S "FACULTIES":
Heart (our Motivator), Mind (our Facilitator), & Conscience (our Regulator)

{Man is made up of 5 parts that are spiritual in nature and one part that is physical.}

When a man dies three things happen instantaneously:

#1. His spirit departs the body and goes back to God, who gave it.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Ecclesiastes 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those
that are given to it.


#2. His soul departs the body and either goes to be with the Lord (if he's saved) or, if he has failed to believe the Gospel, his soul goes to Hell (Not the Lake of Fire - not yet).

2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Genesis 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.

Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.


#3. The body goes into the ground and "sleeps" until either the "First Resurrection" (of the saints), or the "Resurrection of the dead" (the second resurrection).

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death .
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

"Soul sleep" is a heresy taught by Jehovahs Witnesses (and others). You will note that when the Lord Jesus Christ described the condition of a soul in Hell (this is NOT a "Parable"), that although the body was "buried" (asleep), the soul of the rich man was very much alive and still possessed all of his faculties (heart/mind/conscience).

This is a very short explanation of a very long study. Be very careful who you read or go to for the answers to your questions. The Holy Scriptures contain all of your answers, but you need to ask God to not only give you knowledge, but that He also will give you understanding, discernment, and wisdom in these matters.

[Shofar]

Hi George, so if I'm getting this right, hell & the lake of fire are two different things? A soul that denies the Lord Jesus Christ is sent to hell the moment after physical death, but the lake of fire is during judgment day farther off? Then that would mean....... Oh wow. I'm looking directly below me, I never really took a moment to seriously consider the reality of what is happening right now, the souls of men & women, forever cut-off from the grace of God in an eternal nightmare.

You're right about that, George - if I do read anything outside the scriptures, I make sure to try whatever I read with the scriptures as my guide. It's just that after hearing that sound byte, it's almost like I had a vision of what that place could possibly be like & I'll admit, it made me really sick to my stomach for a little while. It caught me off guard because before that, it was just another subject on my list to learn about. But I'll tell you this, that alone confirms yet again that the Lord is not messing around, not in the least & I am thankful to have this brought to my awareness.

[Billie]

Thank you, Brother George. This is the clearest explanation on what happens...according to Gods' Word!... when we die. I'd been told about 'soul sleep' when I was a new christian, but somehow it didn't ring true..even tho they made it 'sound' like truth...my heart wasn't at peace.
Is there a site you know, that I could get the entire teaching on this? Thanks so much for any help

Blessings

[kittn1]

I didn`t listen to the sound byte, Shofar, but I read the article.

It should be enough to light the soul-winning fire under any Christian!

[Rolando]

Originally Posted by kittn1

I didn`t listen to the sound byte, Shofar, but I read the article.

It should be enough to light the soul-winning fire under any Christian!

Ooh my sister in Christ, I did listen to the sound byte. I was terrified! I smile about it now, but when I did listen I was in shock I did shed a tear. Even my little brother, whom I believe not to be saved (he's very worldly, doesn't care about the things of GOD, and has no Holy Spirit conviction), was pretty disturbed by it. I honestly don't know if that sound was really Hell, but it was something I've never heard before in my life. Praise GOD I am NOT going to Hell! Praise the Lord Jesus Christ I am GOING to Heaven! Too bad I can't say the same for my family...

[George]

Originally Posted by Billie

"Thank you, Brother George. This is the clearest explanation on what happens...according to Gods' Word!... when we die. I'd been told about 'soul sleep' when I was a new christian, but somehow it didn't ring true..even tho they made it 'sound' like truth...my heart wasn't at peace.
Is there a site you know, that I could get the entire teaching on this? Thanks so much for any help"

Blessings

Aloha sister Billie,

I greatly appreciate your kind remarks, however, I regret to say, that I seldom recommend anyone (nowadays) when it comes to Bible issues or doctrine. There are a few men (very few) that are Scripturally sound, but the sad fact is most of the so-called Bible teachers and preachers today are either looking for "a following" [Acts 20:30], or they are trying to SELL you something [1Timothy 6:10] or BOTH!

According to the Scriptures, we are supposed to be doing all things for the edification of the brethren [Romans 14:19; Romans 15:2; 1Corinthians 10:23; 14:5, 12, 26; 2Corinthians 12:19; Ephesians 4:12,1 6, 29; 1Thesallonians 5:11; 1Timothy 1:4]. The problem today (in this time of blatant apostasy) is that practically every man (saved or lost) is doing that which is "right in his own eyes" - exactly like in the days of the "Judges" in Israel.

Judges 21:25 In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.
Judges 21:25 In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

We are living in a time of "anarchy" (like in "Judges"), where there is no FINAL AUTHORITY. And as far as most Christians are concerned, since they no longer have a FINAL AUTHORITY, they are going along with the rest of the world and just "doing their thing". But what they have forgotten or are deliberately ignoring is that:

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." [Proverbs 21:2]

If we Christians think that we are going to be able to plead "ignorance" when it comes to these matters, because of the anarchy and confusion around us, we had better have another thought coming. We have God's perfect and Holy word. We have the Holy Spirit living inside of us. The Lord has instructed all of us that: '"It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." [Matthew 4:4] and He has commanded us to: "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." [2 Timothy 2:15]. So we are without excuse.

It behooves all of us to continually strive to remember that, in spite of what men may say or do, the following will always and forever be true:

Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

[Kiwi Christian]

Originally Posted by Shofar

...so if I'm getting this right, hell & the lake of fire are two different things?

They sure are. Notice how death and HELL are cast into the lake of fire in the following verse:

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

I think of hell, which is beneath us in the heart of the earth, as being a temporary holding facility for the damned until a future time when it is emptied out or cast into the lake of fire.

Originally Posted by George

When a man dies three things happen instantaneously:

#1. His spirit departs the body and goes back to God, who gave it.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Ecclesiastes 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those
that are given to it.

Do you brothers think that unsaved men have a spirit?
If so, is it a living spirit or dead spirit?
We know believers have the Spirit of God.
I have Ruckman's sermon on Body Soul and Spirit, as I recall he says the unsaved man is like a flat tire, live body, live soul, and dead spirit. Now if these spirits are dead where are they going when they go back to God? Does God store these spirits individually or is it one human spirit, or breath of life? Just throwing it out there for discussion guys... here are some of my favorite verses, link at bottom with more:

Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? (Ecclesiastes 3:21)

But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. (1 Corinthians 6:17)

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thessalonians 5:23)
http://www.godandscience.org/cults/manspirit.html

[Kiwi Christian]

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

Do you brothers think that unsaved men have a spirit? If so, is it a living spirit or dead spirit?

I believe all men have a spirit, if unsaved it is dead in trespasses and sins, if saved if is quickened (made alive):

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

We know believers have the Spirit of God.

Yes. So we have our own alive spirit, plus the Holy Spirit within us.

1 Corinthians 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

Now if these spirits are dead where are they going when they go back to God? Does God store these spirits individually or is it one human spirit, or breath of life?

Those are some questions brother! I havn't got the answers. I believe that the soul of a man takes the form of a body after it leaves the flesh, eg. the eyes and tongue of the rich man in hell, in Luke 16...but what does the spirit look like, can it even be seen? What does God do with it when it returns to Him? I know not.

Psalms 90:10 The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.