[cb6445]

I have 2 "questions" I'd like to discuss with you men of God.
1) I had someone tell me "there is wisdom in council." They were saying that, meaning there is wisdom in council (an assembly of men). However, does the Bible support that statement. I have done some studying on that statement, and I find scripture stating there is wisdom in counsel (Pr 12:15), but not council. It was over the operation of the church. He said if the church votes, he goes with the majority (which I agree for the most part), but I feel the final decision should go to the man of God. I said, so if the church voted to do _______ and the Holy Ghost told you they were wrong, you would still go with the majority? He says yes. Enlighten me please!!

2)I was also wanting to hear some of your thoughts on Rom 12:7. Is God saying we should sit and wait on our ministering or is he saying we should wait on our ministering (to attend to, as servants)?

In regards to the 1st question, my observation is "What does God say?". Personally I go with those in Authority over me unless God tells me otherwise.

As for Question 2, wouldn't verse 7 be part of an overall message, in which case if you are called to minister then wait on the leading of the Holy Spirit for guidance as to how to minister?

[MC1171611]

Prov. 11:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellers there is safety.

Counsellors are not councilors; this is referring to an individual's counsel, not a deacon board or something like that. It's also not a command to obey the counsel given: it's wise to seek counsel, but don't forget, Jesus Christ is the Supreme Counselor!

Is. 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

[Kiwi Christian]

Originally Posted by cb6445

1) I had someone tell me "there is wisdom in council." They were saying that, meaning there is wisdom in council (an assembly of men). However, does the Bible support that statement. I have done some studying on that statement, and I find scripture stating there is wisdom in counsel (Pr 12:15), but not council. It was over the operation of the church. He said if the church votes, he goes with the majority (which I agree for the most part), but I feel the final decision should go to the man of God. I said, so if the church voted to do _______ and the Holy Ghost told you they were wrong, you would still go with the majority? He says yes. Enlighten me please!!

I believe the Bible teaches a "multitude of counsellors" is wise, but not speaking necessarily of a council assembly of men.

Proverbs 15:22 Without counsel purposes are disappointed: but in the multitude of counsellors they are established.

That multitude could consist of 1) the word of God, 2) the spirit of God, and 3) the spirit of man; and a Bible believing pastor has constant access to these three counsellors! Also he should have some faithful, godly men around him that he can seek wise counsel from, but they are not a council as such.

As far as the local Church making decisions by majority vote, there are times when that should happen, but the pastor should be in agreement with it. I'm not sure there are hard and fast rules laid down in scripture about this?

Originally Posted by cb6445

2)I was also wanting to hear some of your thoughts on Rom 12:7. Is God saying we should sit and wait on our ministering or is he saying we should wait on our ministering (to attend to, as servants)?

Romans 12:7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;

The "wait" in this verse has the latter meaning you mentioned, like a waiter in a resturant keeping busing waiting on tables.

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by cb6445

I had someone tell me "there is wisdom in council." They were saying that, meaning there is wisdom in council (an assembly of men). However, does the Bible support that statement. I have done some studying on that statement, and I find scripture stating there is wisdom in counsel (Pr 12:15), but not council. It was over the operation of the church. He said if the church votes, he goes with the majority (which I agree for the most part), but I feel the final decision should go to the man of God. I said, so if the church voted to do _______ and the Holy Ghost told you they were wrong, you would still go with the majority? He says yes. Enlighten me please!!

Brother Clint, there is certainly clear Biblical teaching in regards to counsel. God will use other individuals and (sometimes a group of individuals) to help direct us in a matter.

Proverbs 11:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellers there is safety.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

Proverbs 15:22 Without counsel purposes are disappointed: but in the multitude of counsellers they are established.

Proverbs 19:20 Hear counsel, and receive instruction, that thou mayest be wise in thy latter end.

Proverbs 20:5 Counsel in the heart of man is like deep water; but a man of understanding will draw it out.

Proverbs 20:18 Every purpose is established by counsel: and with good advice make war.

Satan will also use individuals to direct us. The devil has been giving bad advice and bad counsel from the beginning.

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

So what is the answer? Should we listen to counsel? Yes and no. We should be humble enough to listen to the counsel of others. We should be wise enough to discern the Lord’s will. So my “counsel” is this:

Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Romans 12:1-2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Psalms 33:11 The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.

Proverbs 19:21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.

I have a different perspective on church government. Let me give you something to search out in the scriptures.

1. What is the Biblical pattern for New Testament church government?
   
2. Did God establish “majority rule” in a local congregation? If so, what is your Biblical basis for a congregation holding business meetings and voting yeah or nay?

Study the word “elders” and "submit" to get some clues. Also, since you are a young preacher and may serve as a pastor some day, study the qualifications of a "Bishop", his God ordained and established authority, and the responsibility of the church members to submit to the teaching as God’s appointed man.

I wonder if we should allow "carnal" and even "lost" individuals to vote on what the Lord Jesus Christ's church should be doing? He has already told us what to do as a church body. What is there left to vote on? The Bible tells us what to do and what not to do.


If, on the other hand, a church body chooses to vote on what flavor of ice cream they will have at the annual homecoming, I guess that would be okay.

[stephanos]

My vote is for choclate chip cookie dough in vanilla ice cream. Oh and my vote counts for two since I'm such a kind and gentle fellow.

Whelp, I think I'm going to go meditate on Proverbs 27:2...

Peace and Love,
Stephen

[cb6445]

Thank you Bro Forrest. I agree with you on this. I've taken this issue to God and my spirit completely lines up with your prev reply. That's kinda why I even posted the question (or any question) on this thread. The final answer I will trust in the Lord to show me, but I do feel it's a good thing to get on here and "dig out" these issues. It at least helps keep my mind/heart on the right things. Amen. Anyway, God Bless you Brother!