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TITLES: "elders"/"bishops"/"pastors"
Aloha all,
I have been following the Thread "Pastors/Shepherds???", and instead of continuing on with the personal preferences, hypothesis, and speculations, I thought I would try to get at "the heart of the matter" - "TITLES" and their use in the New Testament: ELDERS/BISHOPS/PASTORS Quote:
The number of times the word “pastors” occurs in the New Testament: {1 time in 1 verse} Quote:
The number of times the word “bishop” occurs in the New Testament: {3 times in 3 verses} Quote:
The number of times the word “Bishop” occurs in the New Testament: {1 time in 1 verse} Quote:
The number of times the word “elder”/“elders” occurs in the New Testament: {69 times in 68 verses} The words “elder”/“elders” occur 26 times in 26 verses in the Four Gospels: {every single time in reference to Jewish “elders” – NOT “elders” in the church of God.} The number of times the words “elder”/“elders” occurs in the New Testament {minus the Book of Revelation} in reference to “leaders” in the church of God: {20 times in 19 verses} The word “elder” (singular) in reference to a “leader” in the church of God: Quote:
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bishop = “The Office” held by elders in the church of God [1 Timothy 3:1]. pastor/teacher/minister/preacher = A “title” given to an “elder” describing the type (or kind) of “work” that is performed by an “elder”. [Ephesians 4:11-12] elder = The Scriptural “Title” of the “leadership position” held by men in the church of God. [The 19 previous verses cited.] {And so, according to the Scriptures, we have “elders” – men who hold the Scriptural “Office” of “Bishop”; who are to be “pastors”, “teachers”, “ministers”, “witnesses”, “Ambassadors for Christ”, “all things to all men”, etc.; who’s Scriptural TITLE is “elder”; and who, when being directly addressed, are to be called “brother”, NOT by ANY TITLE! We are NOT supposed to address Christian men in positions of authority with TITLES: i.e. YOUR HOLINESS; REVEREND; BISHOP; MASTER; PASTOR; DOCTOR; ETC.; ETC.; - after all, aren’t we all supposed to be “brethren”? [Mathew 23:8] What a huge DIFFERENCE between the make-up (administration) and practice of most of today’s so-called “Fundamentalist” and “Evangelical” churches and the early churches illustrated in the Holy Scriptures!} The only example, in the Bible, where ONLY ONE MAN is the “head” of a New Testament church is given in 3 John 1:9-12: Quote:
Can’t you see that if there is a “plurality” of “elders” in a church (with equal authority), that it will be less likely that ONE MAN will become the center of attention - rather than the Lord Jesus Christ and His Holy word? Can’t you see that with several “elders”, (of equal authority) that those in authority (in God’s church) will have to learn to “get along”, rather than have ONE MAN “run the show”? Isn’t it obvious, by the “fawning”, “adulation”, and “glorying” in men and their “works” today, that God had a “reason” for multiple “elders” as “leaders” in His church – rather than just ONE MAN, who is elevated and honored by many as THE UNDER-SHEPHERD, rather than just an “elder” (amongst several) who is supposed to be a SERVANT of the Most High God – NOT some kind of KING! Quote:
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God uses imperfect men and the imperfect churches they set up. He blesses those who preach and teach His words, but his blessing is due to His word – NOT because of the flawed men who preach and teach it. To give credit to a mere man for the salvation of souls or the building and growth of the church of God is to steal God’s Glory! It is Christ Who died for us; it’s the Holy Spirit that convicts of sin; it’s the Father that draws men; it’s by the hearing of the word of God that men believe. WHAT does that make us? We are just unworthy servants; we are just undeserving sinners who, if it were not for God’s Grace, would be headed for our deserved end (Hell). WHO are we that we dare to take credit (or give credit to others) for what God hath wrought? WHY have nearly all men involved in “positions of authority” in nearly all of the so-called “Christian” churches (Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant, and modern day Fundamentalist and Evangelicals, etc.) chosen to use “TITLES” (some Scriptural and others not) to distinguish themselves from ordinary Christians? Hmmm? WHY have most of the Fundamentalist and Evangelical churches chosen the TITLE “pastor” rather than “elder” when referring to men who are in a position of authority in the church of God? (remember - 20 to 1?) The TITLE “elder” does NOT SEPARATE the "leadership" from the brethren in the church of God. The TITLE “elder” does NOT convey the impression that the man (that is an “elder”) is any DIFFERENT from ordinary Christians. Could it be that the use of “TITLES” within Fundamentalist’s circles is meant to SEPARATE “pastors”, “preachers”, “ministers”, “doctors”, etc. from ordinary Christians, i.e. a “clergy” vs. “laity” setup? {Check out what the Lord Jesus Christ had to say [Matthew Chapter 23] about those men (in His time) that loved “to be seen of men”; loved the “uppermost rooms”; loved the “chief seats”; loved “the greetings in the markets”; and loved “to be called of men, {"TITLES"!} Rabbi, Rabbi”! - i.e. “Master”} The TITLE “pastor” is used (by many Christians today) to imply that the man who holds that “title” is an “UNDERSHEPHERD” – in line next to the “CHIEF SHEPHERD”. The TITLE “elder” does NOT imply that “kind of authority” whatsoever! After all – what’s so “cool” about the TITLE “elder”? But a “pastor” – now that’s “a horse of another color”! The TITLE “pastor” can “MEAN” MANY THINGS to many people (as has been demonstrated in the Thread "Pastors/Shepherds???"). The TITLE “elder” may imply age, knowledge, discernment, understanding, and wisdom, but it is extremely difficult to misconstrue the meaning of the TITLE “elder” to mean an “UNDER-SHEPHERD”! This “TITLE” business is all about SEPARATING the “CLERGY” from the “LAITY” – it’s all about SEPARATING the “leadership” in the church of God from the rest of the brethren! There is ONLY ONE SHEPHERD. The entire body of Christ (His true church) is made up entirely of His SHEEP! There are NO UNDER-SHEPHERDS! There are NO JUNIOR-SHEPHERDS! There is NO CLERGY/LAITY setup in the church of God! Check out what God has to say about this issue: Quote:
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1 Corinthians 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours; 2 Corinthians 10:17 But he that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. 1 Corinthians 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Timothy 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. Philippians 4:20 Now unto God and our Father be glory for ever and ever. Amen. Galatians 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, 4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: 5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. Ephesians 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen. |
#2
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See there. I learn something new all the time. Very good and thorough study Pas...oops, Brother George. I especially connect with these thoughts:
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#3
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In our village (barangay), common people will call anyone who who preaches a "pastor". If they hear a deacon preach, they would call him "pastor". If they hear one of our young men preach, they would call him "pastor". If they see a male church member wearing his shirt tucked in and holding a Bible in his hand, they would call him "pastor". Even when we play basketball, a faithful church member with a head that looks almost bald is called "pastor".
I guess, a "pastor" is someone who preaches and looks like a pastor. |
#4
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Sammy is right. they have been calling me pastor since I came to the Philippines.
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#5
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There IS a man (singular) in a "leadership position" (a biblical church office) in I Timothy 3:1-7. There is only ONE bishop as opposed to plural "deacons" referred to in verses 8-13 of the same chapter. And this ONE MAN (that is to "take care of the church of God") is likened to A man RULING over his own house...we all know that there is to be just ONE MAN ruling his own house, not a plurality of leaders in the home. Again, this man is correlated to someone who RULES, not just another "ordinary Christian."
Those that are over us in the Lord are NOT to be treated like "ordinary Christians," according to Paul. We are "to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake." (I Thes. 5:12-13) And the "elders that RULE well" are to "be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine." (I Tim. 5:17) Pam www.custerfamilyfarm.com |
#6
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Pam said:
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You've probably noted that the verses you quoted are given to us. That should be out heart attitude, our treatment of those elders. This is how we are told to treat fellow brothers and sisters - Php 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Yet, we are told here to highly esteem those which labour among us, admonish us and are over us I Thess 5:12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you; 13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves. Yet, Bro. George brings out more applicable verses: But notice here who this is written to: Quote:
These verses are a warning to not puff YOURSELF up. Not to think to highly of YOURSELF. Not negating the verses to those us as to who we are to esteem. It is written how we are to think of men...Those that "rule" well and labour among us we are to highly esteem. And as Christians we are all (even the leadership) to esteem another better than ourselves. Now lest I alert the forum police I had better not post anymore today |
#7
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A great study, brother George.
A quote from you from the Church Governance thread: Quote:
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#8
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Re: "TITLES: "elders"/"bishops"/"pastors""
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I am not too picky uni or such a "gnatstrainer" that I object to the title "pastor" - my whole point is that some people on the Forum were attempting to ELEVATE an "elder" to the position of "UNDER-SHEPHERD" based on the use of the word "pastors"; and all I am trying to do is point out that they had better be extremely careful in their attempts to glorify men, because the term "pastor" may not be the appropriate Scriptural word to use to describe the Scriptural "position" of an "elder" in the church of God. I didn't even point out that the only time that the word "pastors" is used, it is used in conjunction with "teachers", so that if someone wants to use "pastor" as THE "TITLE" for an "elder" in the church - the proper Scriptural "Title" would have to be "pastor and teacher", NOT simply "pastor". Quote:
Just one more reason for Christians not to get "carried away" with only one word, in only one verse, and take it to an extreme and try to "prove" a "private opinion" and twist and wrest the words of God, and try to make them "mean" something other than what they say! I grow weary of all of the "speculation", "hypothesis", and "guess work" of some of the Christians on the Forum. If they do not know what they are talking about - WHY are they posting their "private opinions" on spiritual matters that are of such great importance? The ELEVATION of a mere man (a saved sinner) ABOVE the rest of his Christian brethren is a SIN! And the MAGNIFICATION of a mere man's "position" in the church of God to that of an "UNDER-SHEPHERD" is SIN! And if some "Christians" support either one of these pernicious teachings, they are either ignorant (in which case they shouldn't be commenting) or they have a "personal agenda" in trying to make some man (a saved sinner) something more than he really is! Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. 1 Corinthians 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. |
#9
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You're right, Brother George!
Some Bible school graduate and some pastors here would feel offended when you call them "Brother". Some of them would also look down on our night class Bible school graduates. They'd call them "half-ripe" preachers! I'd call those title-conscious reverends and doctors as "overcooked"! |
#10
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George you are right.
I read the first part of the first post of the shepherds pastors and stopped reading and said I would not get involved in that thread. there are a few threads I am not reading nor participating in. |
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