[Mind and Body]

Gerardous Bouw is a geocentrist, meaning he believes that the sun orbits the earth. He develops this view from a literal interpretation of the Bible. I don't know that he is a KJV-O, but he does say that he "insists on using the Authorized Version", and that is where his Bible verses in his articles come from. His Web-page is Geocentricity.com and he publishes a quarterly mag called The Biblical Astronomer. So...what do you guys make of this? This was the first time I knew that there was any scientific question as to "what-orbits-what?" His science seems pretty good.

[Winman]

Oh boy, astronomy is a subject I love, I have been an amateur astronomer since my youth, I still own a nice telescope, but I have not used it much in the last few years.

You know, I have studied this subject. I do believe Earth is the center of the universe, it is obviously God's center of attention. That said, I think the Earth probably rotates around the Sun. I do think perhaps our Sun, or at least our galaxy the Milky Way is the dead center of the entire universe.

Now astronomers use the red-shift to determine the distance of far away galaxies. And the more the red-shift, supposedly the further away a galaxy is, and the faster it is travelling away from us. This is the belief that the universe is expanding.

I myself do not believe the universe is expanding. I believe the red-shift has been interpreted falsely and does not equate with distance or speed of expansion of the universe.

It is clear the universe was stretched or spread out by God, there are many verses to support this.

Isa 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

I do not believe in the Big Bang theory, although the Bible says God stretched out the heavens. One of the biggest arguments by secular astronomers against the Big Bang is that it resembled the creation account in the Bible. But the heavens were stretched out, although I do not believe they are still expanding. All the Bible verses on this support that the universe was stretched out past tense, so it is no longer expanding in my view. I believe in a six-day creation just as the Bible says.

The work of Halton Arp has shown evidence that the red-shift interpretations are wrong. He has photographic evidence of supposedly super distant quasars actually attached to known much closer galaxies, though the quasars show much more redshift.

Here is his site, you can see photos here.

http://www.haltonarp.com/bio

And astronmer William Tifft showed the "Quantization of the Red-Shifted Light from Distant Galaxies". This showed that the Earth was the center of the universe. Of course, the atheistic astronomers would not hear of this, and sought to disprove his findings. Trouble is, further study showed Tifft correct.

Here is a good article on Tifft's discoveries.

http://www.ldolphin.org/tifftshift.html

Here is another article from ICR. See also "Related Articles" at the bottom of the page.

http://www.icr.org/universe-center/

It is completely possible that the entire universe is rotating around the Earth itself. It is a matter of perspective really. Photos of Polaris (North Star) do show the universe spinning around us. Of course the Earth rotates, so this would be the case, but who knows? Perhaps the universe is spinning around us each 24 hours?

[Winman]

Here is a very interesting article on Halton Arp's site called the "Fingers of God'. These show galaxies in arrangement all pointing toward Earth. It is unmistakeable and astronomers cannot explain it. These fingers point inward from every direction indicating the Earth is the center of the universe.

http://www.haltonarp.com/articles/fi...nding_universe

By the way, Halton Arp is not a Christian that I know of, just an honest astronomer. He has endured much persecution because of his publications. At one time he was considered one of the most preeminent astronomers in the world. That is till his studies began to prove the Big Bang Theory false, and also showing the Earth as the center of the universe, as also Tifft has given evidence.

[Diligent]

The case for geocentricity is pretty un-convincing to me. Obviously, if the case could be made from Scripture that would be strong enough, but geocentrists focus on only two verses (AFAIK).

If motion is relative (have you ever told a child to "sit still" in a moving car? Is that possible? Yes, motion is relative.) there is no problem with picking the earth as the reference point for motion in the universe in writing. It is not "wrong" to say the sun rises and sets. Even modern science says it -- ever looked at your weather report? What's the problem? There isn't any! Yes, the earth orbits the sun. Yes, the sun rises and sets -- relative to an observer on earth. There is no problem here!

The Bible was written by God for man. There is no problem understanding that any motion it references in the universe is relative to the observer, which is either God or man.

[Winman]

Brandon

I agree with you, that's why I said it was a matter of perspective when I showed the photo of Polaris. I think the Earth revolves around the Sun myself. But I do think Earth is at the center of the universe.

And there is REAL evidence that Earth is at or near the center of the universe. Here is an article from Answers In Genesis.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home...6n2_CENTRE.pdf

It is not just creationists who have put forward this theory, many secular astronomers agree there is strong evidence for this. Of course, many astronomers have spent much of their time trying to disprove it as well.

This is what "quantized redshifts" show, galaxies in bands around our home galaxy the Milky Way.

I have run into a few Geo-heads in my day, some of them can be quite dogmatic but I really haven't found the need to strike a stern position on it myself.

I have seen believers argue about this for hours, it reminds me of the Gap Theory, LOL. I have also seen that some Geocentrists believe in a non-orbiting and non-moving earth, not just a universe-centered earth. I think this might be because they are seeing something in the Old Testament (Joshua 10:13-14) that the Bible may not actually be teaching, and then they are projecting that into a dogmatic view of the current state of affairs. I have presented issues like Foucault's pendulum and the Coriolis effect, only to be treated in a rude fashion as though it didn't deserve discussion. In the end, I decided it wasn't worth arguing about. More here (FWIW) from Apologetics Press:
http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2178
http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2189

[Winman]

I agree. I really believe the Earth is orbiting the Sun, which is orbiting our galaxy the Milky Way. But I do believe we are at the center.

Kinda metaphysical, but when you spin a top, is the top spinning, or is the room spinning around the top?

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Mind and Body

Gerardous Bouw is a geocentrist, meaning he believes that the sun orbits the earth. He develops this view from a literal interpretation of the Bible. I don't know that he is a KJV-O, but he does say that he "insists on using the Authorized Version", and that is where his Bible verses in his articles come from. His Web-page is Geocentricity.com and he publishes a quarterly mag called The Biblical Astronomer. So...what do you guys make of this? This was the first time I knew that there was any scientific question as to "what-orbits-what?" His science seems pretty good.

M, one thing I have learned is because someone says they are "KJVO" does not necessarily mean they are right. Charley Manson once stated the KJV was the correct Bible and we all know what he did. The violent and quasi-guerrilla Christian Identity Movement have factions who are KJVO. They seem to believe the weapons of our warfare are carnal ones, like bombs and shooting abortion doctors. I believe Eric Robert Rudolph was CIM. We must remember Charles Taze Russell, who founded the Watchtower, had nothing but a KJV to teach his twisted theology from for several years till Westcott and Hort came along with their corruptions.

I don't place much stock in Geocentricism or any other fringe research as this. I am not being cranky but ask, what do these fringe investigations have to do with the gospel of Christ? Steven Hawkins stated in a book back in the late 80s that examination of all distant bodies showed that they were moving away from the earth at an equal speed and direction, placing the earth as the central region of the Universe> I thought that was interesting that someone so high a profile as he would make that statement. Geocentricity was the doctrine of the Catholic Church in the Dark Ages till Copernicus demonstrated the fundamentals of motion for heavenly bodies.

What I find to be a real mind blower is the implications of Rev. 1:6 and that the Universe was created to be inhabited.

And will be.

Grace and peace

Tony

[Mind and Body]

Originally Posted by tonybones2112

M, one thing I have learned is because someone says they are "KJVO" does not necessarily mean they are right. Charley Manson once stated the KJV was the correct Bible and we all know what he did. The violent and quasi-guerrilla Christian Identity Movement have factions who are KJVO. They seem to believe the weapons of our warfare are carnal ones, like bombs and shooting abortion doctors. I believe Eric Robert Rudolph was CIM. We must remember Charles Taze Russell, who founded the Watchtower, had nothing but a KJV to teach his twisted theology from for several years till Westcott and Hort came along with their corruptions.

I don't place much stock in Geocentricism or any other fringe research as this. I am not being cranky but ask, what do these fringe investigations have to do with the gospel of Christ? Steven Hawkins stated in a book back in the late 80s that examination of all distant bodies showed that they were moving away from the earth at an equal speed and direction, placing the earth as the central region of the Universe> I thought that was interesting that someone so high a profile as he would make that statement. Geocentricity was the doctrine of the Catholic Church in the Dark Ages till Copernicus demonstrated the fundamentals of motion for heavenly bodies.

I don't look at his Web-page and wonder because he is a KJVO, but I find it interesting because it is something I have never questioned before. I think, however (I don't mean to be rude) that calling geocenterists "fringe" is a little extreme. He has an article in one of his TBA .pdf files with quotes from atheist/evolutionist scientists that more or less concede that geocentricity is science (even though it destroys the IBBT [Inflationary Big Bang Theory]). And that is something to think about: if we can provide evidence for geocentricity, then we can discredit the Big Bang Theory, something for which evolutionists have no non-Creation alternative (other than the Steady State Theory, which is severely discredited and has been since the 70's).

But we do not need Geocentricity to prove or disprove anything.
We have the inerrant Word of God brother!
Evolutionists will not accept God on the basis of "evidence."
They have a heart problem, not an evidence problem.