[geologist]

Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

In the above verse the Bible says that the Lord God brought forth both the sea creatures and birds (fowl) from the waters.

This is reaffirmed in the following verse:
Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

But this verse presents an apparent contradiction:

Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

This verse says that the Lord God brought forth the fowl from the ground, not the waters.

Why is this not a contradiction?

First thought that comes to mind is that the waters brought forth sea birds, such as gulls, pelicans, etc.

The earth brought forth land birds such as sparrows, etc.

All life was created by Divine Fiat....spoken into existence by God. Life did not "evolve" from primordial soup. The poetic language used in Genesis conveys truth in non-scientific terminology.

Shalom,

Tandi

[geologist]

Originally Posted by Tandi

First thought that comes to mind is that the waters brought forth sea birds, such as gulls, pelicans, etc.

The earth brought forth land birds such as sparrows, etc.

All life was created by Divine Fiat....spoken into existence by God. Life did not "evolve" from primordial soup. The poetic language used in Genesis conveys truth in non-scientific terminology.

Shalom,

Tandi

Ok, but first ground rule: Please spare me on the anti-evolution platitudes. Nobody mentioned anything about evolution, and I don't intend to bring that subject up (I don't believe it, anyway). We are dealing here only with divinely inspired Scriptural text.

That being said. Yes, but the "poetic language" cited does appear to contradict itself. My first thought was that the first instance could have meant water birds like penguins, but they can not "fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven." (Gen 1:20) That would also rule out other flightless birds which are land dwellers.

BOTH the birds that the waters brought forth (Genesis 1:20-22) and that were brought forth from the ground (Genesis 2:19) are said to fly.

So, again, the question is this: One passage says they came forth from the waters, another says they came from the ground. Why is this not a contradiction?

[Winman]

Gen 1:20 says "And God said"

This is telling you the method God used to create these creatures.

Gen 1:21 says, "And God created"

This is telling you God brought forth something that did not previously exist.

Gen 2:19 says, "And out of the ground the LORD God formed"

This is telling you the material or substance God used to form these creatures.

[geologist]

Originally Posted by Winman

Gen 1:20 says "And God said"

This is telling you the method God used to create these creatures.

Gen 1:21 says, "And God created"

This is telling you God brought forth something that did not previously exist.

Gen 2:19 says, "And out of the ground the LORD God formed"

This is telling you the material or substance God used to form these creatures.

Your answer does not explain my original question. Is the substance God used to create the fowl the "waters" (Genesis 1:20-22) or the "ground" (Genesis 2:19)?

[Winman]

Geologist

We are made (as well as all creatures) from both the ground and the water. A trace of all elements can be found in the human body. But there is much water too. Here is a statement from a doctor about the percentage of water in the body I found.

Different people have different percentages of their bodies made up of
water. Babies have the most, being born at about 78%. By one year of age,
that amound drops to about 65%. In adult men, about 60% of their bodies
are water. However, fat tissue does not have as much water as lean tissue.
In adult women, fat makes up more of the body than men, so they have about
55% of thier bodies made of water. Fat men also have less water (as a
percentage) than thin men.

So, God knew exactly what He was saying, there is no contradiction whatsoever.

Originally Posted by geologist

Your answer does not explain my original question. Is the substance God used to create the fowl the "waters" (Genesis 1:20-22) or the "ground" (Genesis 2:19)?

Winman brings up a good point.

What if the answer is BOTH. Check this out...

All animal life was completed on the 5th day. (Gen. 1:21-23)

Man was created on the 6th day. (26-31)

The event in 2:19 could be a "naming event"
not a creation event. (the animal creation was already completed on day 5).

You will notice in 1:27 he created them "male and female" but not in 2:19.

In 2:19, I think it is possible that God created only one each of the living creatures from the earth as a "snap shot" for Adam to review them and name them all in assembly line fashion. This was no small feat, but still easy for our God of creation to whip up a quick tiger, ostrich or giraffe from the dirt in front of Adam.

God presents the mighty steed...
God: "Adam, what would you call this?"
Adam: "Hmmm, let's go with Horse (or whatever)."

God presents the Pachyderm...
God: "How about this?"
Adam: "I like the name Elephant."

God presents the Platypus...
God: "How about this?"
Adam: "Are you serious?"

[Debau]

Originally Posted by geologist

Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

In the above verse the Bible says that the Lord God brought forth both the sea creatures and birds (fowl) from the waters.

This is reaffirmed in the following verse:
Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

But this verse presents an apparent contradiction:

Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

This verse says that the Lord God brought forth the fowl from the ground, not the waters.



Why is this not a contradiction?

Sounds like you may be driving at Water(dwelling) birds in Gen 1 and Land birds Gen 2. Possibly "the open firmament of heaven" in Gen 1:20 is the air above the waters, the firmament being associated with water. They are water birds. Adam named the Land birds "of the air" in Gen 2:19.
No contradiction, just a summary creation account in Gen 1 explained in further detail in Gen 2.

Can you breed a duck with a pigeon?

[Luke]

Not sure if this was said, but if it was, I'll say it simpler

Genesis 1 describes day 1-6

Genesis 2 describes the events in the Garden of Eden, and God's creation regarding Eden. So in Genesis 2, the birds are everywhere else, and then God creates some locally in Eden. That's also the explanation for why the order is out of wack with Genesis 1. He uses the earth to do this, rather than the water. No big deal.

REPOSTING this because I don't think anyone ever reads the last post on a page. Forget Hebrew literary laws (this is english), forget popular interpretations. This is only understood by reading it as it stands. Genesis 1 is Days 1 - 6. Genesis 2 is Day 6 in the Garden of Eden. The verses even declare it to be so. Verse 8 defines the context, location and period of time that the rest of the verses fit into.

Reading the text is the clearest way to see it.


Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Gen 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
Gen 2:11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
Gen 2:12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
Gen 2:13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
Gen 2:14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


As the poster above said - this is when God created creatures and brought them to Adam. Maybe Adam was not standing by any water at that time.

EDIT: Debau, how can it be a summary.. when birds are formed before man in Gen 1 and then birds are formed after man in Gen 2. It's a completely different account. Genesis 1 account is an overview of day 1 through 6. Genesis 2 is an account of what happened in day 6 in the garden in Eden.

[geologist]

Originally Posted by Luke

EDIT: Debau, how can it be a summary.. when birds are formed before man in Gen 1 and then birds are formed after man in Gen 2. It's a completely different account. Genesis 1 account is an overview of day 1 through 6. Genesis 2 is an account of what happened in day 6 in the garden in Eden.

Luke,
That was very helpful, but I still have some confusion.

I had personally been looking at Genesis 2 as an expansion of day 6 details. The reason being that after God forms all the different creatures out of the ground, and brings them to Adam to name, He then makes Eve. However, the Creation account of Genesis 1 says:

Ge*1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

So, Eve was created on the sixth day. This leads me to think that the events outlined in Genesis 2 are an expansion of day 6 events/details.