[Diligent]

Originally Posted by Forrest

We see this message of a coming saviour woven through the pages of scriptures in the Old Testament. Why?

There is no question that the OT foretells Christ's coming and sacrifice. However, the question is whether or not they understood that Christ's coming as Messiah and his coming as King were to be separate events. This is why Christ's own apostles rebuked the Lord and tried to prevent his capture. They expected Christ to assume the throne, not be killed on a cross.

The whole "valley" of the Church, between Christ's ascension and his return, was a complete mystery of which the Old Testament saints were completely ignorant:

Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

How were people saved in the Old Testament? If it was belief, then belief in what?

A full discussion of this will take a long time. My short answer is that in every point in history, a man is saved by doing what God tells him to do. In our case, it's as simple as believing the Gospel. But look at Noah. He had to build a boat to be saved -- if he had ignored God's commands to work he would have died in the water along with everyone else. This is a great example because God doesn't tell us to build anything to be saved -- we rest on Christ's work. But God didn't build the boat for Noah.

As for eternal state -- this is why there is a difference between paradise and heaven. Until Christ died for the sins of men, Abraham (etc) were all separated from God in paradise. But they couldn't get to paradise without doing whatever it was God said to do.

There is no question that at all times, salvation is by grace through faith. But today we have the faith of Christ. Those before Christ had their own faith.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Compare with:

Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

This is different -- I live by Jesus Christ's faith, not my own.

Anyway, not to get too long on this -- in the end we all must recognize that only Christ's sacrifice can take away sins. Hebrews 10:4. But how God chooses to impute righteousness differs depending on whom and when God is dealing. For us, we simply believe the Gospel and receive Christ. Noah had to build a boat. Abraham had to believe he'd have a son. Enoch had to walk with God (and it appears God even made exception for Enoch, taking him without even allowing him to die and wait around for 30 B.C.!).

David prayed that God wouldn't take his spirit from him. Clearly that is different than us, who are sealed by the Hold Spirit -- we couldn't lose the Spirit if we tried.

David even had a special arrangement with God. He broke laws that the law demanded he be executed for, and God did not require of it of him. God decides how he imputes righteousness (and sin) on people.

I see it was indeed different for them, of course, but was the message of a promised Messiah the substance of what people hoped for and the evidence of things not seen?

As it relates to salvation, I don't see how. We don't see the Messiah mentioned by any prophets until after Noah (if I recall correctly).

I look back, and although I did not physically see Jesus Christ, "I see Him" through the Word.

AMEN! As well we all should!

But keep in mind Paul's clear statement that much of this was simply not revealed before God gave it to Paul. We have the benefit of hindsight.

Larkin's "mountain peaks of prophecy" illustrations really help visualize this.

I know Him. He's real to me and personal by faith. I've got the Holy Spirit living in me though, so my eyes are opened. What about those Old Testament men and women? What did they believe in? God in general or something specific regarding the prophecy of the Lord Jesus Christ?

It depends on who you were and when. When you were dying of a snake bite during the Exodus and the priest walked by you with a brass serpent, you believed that you looked at it and would be healed. (Exodus 2)

Also, you believed that if you kept the law and did the right sacrifices, you'd be saved. That's different from now. Nowhere in Mosaic law is it mentioned that faith in a coming messiah is part of atoning for sin, that I can recall.

The problem is, we have this tradition that says "salvation always the same." At its core, it is, but not by the faith of Christ. Salvation granted by doing what God says to do. God told Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc to do different things. God told Israel to do animal sacrifices. And if they didn't do them, they'd not be saved.