[Luke]

Originally Posted by ericwgreene

Here is my two cents...

Lordship salvation - repentance and faith, one must produce fruit after salvation
Moderate Free grace - repentance and faith, one SHOULD product fruit after salvation
Free Grade - faith, no expectation of fruit after salvation

I have never held to Free Grace. I used to hold to Moderate Free Grace. But, I now hold to Lordship salvation as I have defined above.

Lordship Salvation tends to be the Calvinistic position while Moderate Free Grace is the non-Calvinistic position.

You are only going by JM's stupid definitions. Stop defining people into little groups.

We are FREE GRACE. There is no such thing as MODERATE Free Grace. It's like saying "Inexpensive Free Grace" or "Cheap Free Grace" or "Almost Free Grace". It's a dumb title with no meaning, other than to define boundaries between Hodges Vs Macarthur.

As I said, Hodges isn't even teaching any gospel. 1 Cor 15:1-4 is the Gospel, and he thinks it is unnecessary.

So you define repentance as above.

Lordship salvation - repentance and faith, one must produce fruit after salvation

So, your doctrine is not really salvation, it's probation. One is saved "freely", but if one does not produce fruits, based on your (or Macarthurs) arbitrary guidelines, he was not really saved. This is the EXACT SAME teaching as Arminianism, with a twist

Arminians claim one can LOSE their salvation if they don't produce fruit
Calvinists claim they never had it.

Neither have eternal security.

Here is how the Mormons define repentance:

"Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and the Lord will remember them no more. By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins--behold, he will confess them and forsake them."

"Our Father in heaven does not sin, and He does not allow people who sin to live with Him. To live with Him, we must repent of our sins. To repent means to feel sorry for our sins and stop doing them."

"The forsaking of sin must be a permanent one. True repentance does not permit making the same mistake again"

"There is one crucial test of repentance. This is abandonment of the sin"

Brother, it seems to me you don't even know what repentance is.

You say "Repentance and Faith - one must produce fruits after salvation" - Basically, you are saying that repentance IS fruits. Or, to put it another way, Repentance IS works.

Repentance is as Ironside puts it. It is a turning, a turning to God, and it is a forsaking, forsaking our own righteousness and looking to Christ alone for salvation. It's nothing to do with forsaking sin. It's forsaking our own righteousness. You Lordship folks have abhorrent doctrine. You think that God will accept you if you forsake your sin and come with your own righteousness. Isaiah 64:6 friend.

I know that's a blatent misrepresentation, but it's a logical conclusion.