[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by George

Aloha brother Tony,

I'm going to "dip my oar in" if you don't mind.

John the Baptist was NOT the first "Baptist " - if you mean like all of the Baptists since the death burial and resurrection of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. John the Baptist's "ministry" had no more "connection" to a modern Baptist preacher's "ministry" than Moses or any of the other Hebrew Prophets in the Old Testament do.

John the Baptist was a Hebrew Prophet to the nation of Israel only:

Luke 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

John the Baptist was a Hebrew Prophet to the nation of Israel only - who went before the Lord "in the spirit and power of Elias".

Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

John the Baptist was a Hebrew Prophet to the nation of Israel only - who was:

Matthew 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Mark 1:3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

Luke 3:4 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

John 1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.

The Lord Jesus Christ was baptized in water to "fulfill all righteousness" [Matthew 3:15] and so that: "He should be made manifest to Israel". To which John the Baptist testified. [John 1: 29-34]

Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

John the Baptist was baptizing "the baptism of repentance" (the same "baptism" that Apollos preached years later- Acts 18:25) and that is why he objected to baptizing Jesus - because He (the Lord) was sinless and had no sins to "repent" of!

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

The main "purpose" for baptizing the Lord Jesus Christ in water was to reveal ("manifest") Him to the nation of Israel:

John 1:25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?
26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.

31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.

32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Brother George, you may feel free to comment or resond to anything I write on this forum my friend

Okay dokay. I didn't think there was, but I asked the question specifically about John the Baptist because I wanted to see if anyone held the Brider position, since they consider John the "first Baptist".

Jesus Christ's baptism, we are in agreement on partially, I believe we need to go into the OT to see what made the Jews understand He was manifest to them. Was John's baptism something new that popped oiut of the ground?

He was made manifest by the Law He wrote and the ordinances He established in the OT and the prophecies He inspired to the OT prophets. But in order for Him to be recognized and "manifest" He had to show them, perform for them, some prophetic ordinance that they would know and understand.


That ordinance was the OT washing to sanctify a priest, the first being the consecrated washing in water and the second being sanctification by oil(a type of the Holy Ghost)and in Christ and the "kingdom of priests" John came to call, their santification would be by the very Entity the oil typified, the Holy Spirit.

This consecration and sanctification by water washing and oil was expected, otherwise, how would they know He was manifested as what?

Le 21:10 And he that is the high priest among his brethren, upon whose head the anointing oil was poured, and that is consecrated to put on the garments, shall not uncover his head, nor rend his clothes;

John the Baptist came to consecrate Christ as the great High Priest, just as he told the Jews:

Mt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mr 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Lu 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Christ was sanctified by God the Father after His baptism, His washing of consecration:

Luke 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Le 8:6 And Moses brought Aaron and his sons, and washed them with water.
Lev. 8:12 And he poured of the anointing oil upon Aaron’s head, and anointed him, to sanctify him.

Jesus Christ Himself was the bodily manifestation of God and the spokesman to Israel all through the OT, it was He who spoke according to John 1:1-3. At John the Baptist's objection to Him being baptized notice closely that Christ speaks several words that are often times overlooked, and clearly pointing to this procedure being looked for and recognized as an OT ordinance, specifically the washings:

Mt 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

So Christ's consecration, His washing, was looked for and recognized.

Deut.5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Ro 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

Thus Christ came to manifest Himself to Israel, to fulful the promises made unto the fathers, and that promise was manifest in:

Ex 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Isa 61:6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
Isa 66:21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.

Peter writes to the people he baptized in Acts 2(I Peter 1:1), the Messianic Church, the Kingdom Of Priests then and in the Tribulation. Note the reference in I Peter 2:9 to Ex:19:6:

1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Nowhere in Paul's letters are we called a "priesthood of believers", the Body of Christ are the "kings" of Revelation 1:6, Israel is "the kingdom of priests:

2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Re 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Water baptism was not part of Paul's ministry though he baptized through the book of Acts. The end of the book of Acts is where the commission of Mark 16 stopped with taer baptism, signs, and wonders to Israel. Paul was shaking deadly serpents off into the fire in Acts 28.

1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Brother George, that's Scripture with Scripture and pretty well closes the case for "following the Lord in believers baptism", though I am sure it won;t close the discussion.

Grace and peace to you my friend.

Tony