[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

I'm not sure anyone replied to you, but I would refer any readers to the passage in Acts 19, when Paul came to Ephesus on his third preaching trip, he found some disciples there and asked them some very important questions...

Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

We can see in the passage above how the men remarked that they knew only the baptism of John. Paul responded by CLEARLY explaining why John's baptism was different (verse 4). John's baptism looked FORWARD to the coming of Jesus. Obviously, Jesus had not yet died when John baptized people. John's was a baptism of preparation looking FORWARD to Jesus' death (see Matthew 3:3).

This shows that John's baptism cannot be the identical baptism which Jesus instructed people to receive under the gospel (Mark 16:15,16; Matthew 28:18-20). Today's symbol of BELIEVER'S baptism looks BACKWARD to Jesus' death, burial and resurrection (the Gospel) as accomplished facts. We are baptized into His death, picturing His death, burial, and resurrection (Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12). Before we can participate in believer's baptism, we must believe in Jesus as God's Son who has been raised from the dead (Rom. 10:9,10; Mark 16:16; Acts 8:36-38).

One of my favorite passages of believer's baptism is right here in Acts chapter 8, regarding the Ethiopian eunuch...

29 "Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him."

So thanks to our beloved King James Bible, there is the clear doctrine on believer's baptism, like a diamond in the dust. I like the way verse 37 demonstrates the simple plan for this important ordinance which is reserved for all believers. This is why I was baptized after I was saved, even though I was not baptized in a Baptist church, and I was actually baptized long before I ever became a Baptist.

Let's look backward brother Parrish, let's look backward on dead works and see if we are fit for the kingdom of God:

Lu 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

I don't have to "look back" on anything, my corrupt Adamic nature and the fact a Perfect and sinless Man, God in the flesh, had to die for my salvation is right in front of my eyes 24 hours a day. I don't "look back" at anything, I'm looking at it in the mirror.

I say this without offense, but the IFB "system" as brother GreekTim calls it makes th same mistake the Campbellite Church of Christ makes, and that is making the book of Acts 1-28 as a primer for present day church practice, when Paul is healing the sick and shaking off serpents as late as Acts 28.

Is anyone going to deny those two incidents, and is anyone going to say those two signs of an apostle are operative for today?

Neither is baptism in water, as it ceased at Acts 28.

Ac 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

Here are the points you are missing with me:

1. I have never said water baptism was NOT operative in the book of Acts.
2. I have never said water baptism was operative for Zeus/Jupiter worshipping Gentiles who convert to Christ those who are our "types" and "like figures" TODAY.

Here is my point:

Jewish water baptism is first found in Leviticus 8 as a consecration of a Levite priest, the first step being washing, then pouring out of oil. This was the training for Israel to lead the world back to God, by Israel's EXALTATION would the Gentiles be blessed, and that God PROMISED to make them into a KINGDOM OF PRIESTS. Thus John, a Levite, came baptizing with WATER to the WHOLE nation of Israel, and as a Levite consercrated Jesus Christ as their HIGH PRIEST, the second step being sanctification with oil, the Holy Spirit. When John was killed Jesus and the apostles carried on this consecration, Jesus never baptized anybody. Why?

His job was as sanctifier, not consecrator.

Le 21:10 And he that is the high priest among his brethren, upon whose head the anointing oil was poured, and that is consecrated to put on the garments, shall not uncover his head, nor rend his clothes;

Joh 1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.

Mt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

Heb 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Heb 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

So John came as Consecrator, Christ came as Sanctifier. He resurrected and gave the signs of an apostle to apostles to then dispense to Jews and Gentile proselytes to Judaism

My point: Why do I call water baptism "Jewish" water baptism? Because there is no Scriptural record of any Gentile outside the commonwealth of Israel being baptized in water. everyone baptized in water in the Bible are unbelieving Jews who then believed and Gentile prosylytes.

That includes me and BTW, you too brother Parrish, and everyone reading this.

Understand the Scriptural position on this topic a little better now, brother?

The CoC justify their downright heresy of baptismal regeneration by pointing to the Philippian jailor of Acts 16, never once thinking that the Philippian jailor, was a Gentile proselyte to Judaism ,since native Jews from Israel would scarcely be found in charge of a ROMAN jail. With different motive(to uphold a denominational tradition) the entire IFB Movement turn to Acts 18 and 19 to prove church practice for today, when the signs of an apostle(Jewish water baptism being one) are still in effect and operative.

I thank you in the Lord for pointing out the church at Ephasus, as it proves my point above:

Acts 18:18 And Paul after this tarried there yet a good while, and then took his leave of the brethren, and sailed thence into Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila; having shorn his head in Cenchrea: for he had a vow.
19 And he came to Ephesus, and left them there: but he himself entered into the synagogue, and reasoned with the Jews.

In Acts 19 we find Jewish converts to the kingdom of heaven gospel being given doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness by Paul. Did Paul baptize them in water? Yes! Paul had to. Water baptism with tongues, signs, wonders, and healing following were a sign of an apostle according to Mark 16, Paul was an apostle.

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7 And all the men were about twelve.

Ac 19:10 And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.

Ac 19:17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.

Zeus worshipping Gentiles or Jews, brother? John certainly baptized no Gentiles.

Cornelius of Acts 10? I need cite no Scripture, as Cornelius was a Gentile convert to Judaism and had to be baptised in water.

Let's delve into my point further, Corinth:

I Cor. 18:1 After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth;

I Cor. 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

I Cor. 18:8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

1Co 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Careful Berean study, daily study, of the Scriptures reveal the signs of an apostle, water baptism included, lost effectiveness and practice at the end of Acts 28:

Ga 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

I don't require a "sign", the unbelieving nation of Israel does. I'm living in Acts Chapter 29, and so are you brother Parrish, so is Greek tim and Chette, and so is everyone, lost and saved, reading this right now. You say, heresy! there is no Acts 29!

Yes there is.

Look in the mirror.

Times Past: Genesis-Acts 28
But Now: Romans-Philemon
Ages To Come: Hebrews-Revelation

Brother Parrish, I'm annoying, but at least I am honestly consistent with you, you are not debating a Campbellite, you are discussing doctrine with a brother in Christ who is an ex-Campbellite. I hope at this point to all of you that I have been decent and in order, and that the discussion will remain so for its duration.

Grace and peace to all

Tony