[George]

Kirandio,

Your quote:

“George, #3 is a false statement. You do not know me, and you do not know how long I have been examining this issue. However, I will take up your offer on #1, since honestly, I think that miracle might be the only form of persuasion available for the people here, and even then I am not too sure of how persuasive miracle would be.”

I said:

#3. I don't know how long you have been saved, but I do know that you have NOT examined this issue (Which Bible?) in any depth, and that you are depending on your own private "opinion" in deciding the issue.

The following are some links to this issue if you care to examine it in more depth:

A letter outlining the "Which Bible" Controversy - which includes a partial list of several books covering the subject of "Which Bible".:
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...3&postcount=69

I also have a short "synopsis" of many of the books covering the subject of "Which Bible". I have personally read every book that I have listed and if you are interested, you can find the list (with the synopsis) at this link:
http://www.thywordistruthkjv.com/booklist.html

An essay on why I believe the King James Bible:
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...78&postcount=1

Two essays by Moses LemuelRaj on "The Inspiration of Scripture:
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...19&postcount=1

If you are truly interested in the truth of this issue you will not only search out what I have listed here, but there are plenty of web sites on the net that could supply you with more information than you could possibly absorb in 20 years of study. I have some links to some of those websites on my website listed by my "Avatar" below.

“Sigh” . . . . You have come to a “AV1611 Bible Forum” and we know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about you {your background? - male or female? single or married? – childless or children? - old or young? – how long you have been saved? - which church (or churches) you have attended? – etc.???}. But there is one thing I do know, and that is you have an arrogant and condescending manner that is contrary to how a Christian is supposed to conduct himself (and which is quite common amongst elitist scribes & scholars) - i.e. your insulting first opening comments in your second Post #14:

"I will take up your offer on #1, since honestly, I think that miracle might be the only form of persuasion available for the people here, and even then I am not too sure of how persuasive miracle would be.”

I let some of your personal remarks pass the first time around; however, it is now time to reply to your Post and demonstrate that my comments about your obvious lack of knowledge about the “Which Bible” issue was based on YOUR OWN STATEMENTS made in your Post #9.

You stated:

“If these versions of the Bible which use phrases to help the reader understand God are "perversions" as people call them, then my level of understanding the Holy Spirit must be through the roof considering my experiences,” since I have been able to successfully understand quite a bit about God using the CEV for a couple of years.”

All of your previous statement equals nothing but your own private personal “opinion” and “experience. I doubt if anyone on this Forum would deny that most of the modern bibles contain SOME of God’s words. If the modern translators eliminated MOST of God’s words, even people like you would be able to see that.

You said:

“I went to his church, and after receiving Jesus into my heart, I received a Bible, as I would call it anyways. It was not a KJV, an NIV, an NASB, or NKJV. It was...a CEV. So the question I now pose...if God really exclusively honors the KJV Bible; if the KJV Bible is the only good version of the Bible, why is it that in that experience I was handed a CEV Bible?”

In my previous Post I answered with:

“#2. It is not necessary to have a complete Bible or a even a complete New Testament to get saved. You get saved by hearing the word of God (i.e. the Gospel), and you could do that with a simple Salvation tract.”

Again, you are referring to nothing more than your own private personal “opinion” and “experience”. And you neglected to mention that I did answer your question. (QUESTIONS – ALWAYS QUESTIONS! )

You claimed:

“Allegedly, the KJV Bible that people use now is altered, even if it is ever so slightly. As someone who can relatively use computers fluently, I know that if you change just one letter, just one item on a document, that document becomes a different document. If the KJV Bible that people are using has just one letter that is different from the original, then it is not the exact same Bible as before.”

If you will notice – in your entire Humanistic logic and reasoning above you left out ONE CRUCIAL thing. You write about “computers”, “letters”, “documents”, and the “Bible”. But you omitted God’s WORDS! God is not concerned with spelling, or with punctuation; and He is not concerned with “documents”. Our God is concerned with His WORDS. How could you have forgotten that? Or did you ever know that to begin with? Oh, and by the way – Can you give me a one sentence “definition of the word “Bible”? Since you know so much, you should have a simple “definition” for what you are discussing.

I said that you haven’t examined this issue “in depth”, because of the shallowness of your arguments against the King James Bible, and the fact that nearly all of what you presented was your own personal private “opinion”.

Here are a few of the meaningless arguments that you used in trying to convince us of your “expertise”: “

Allegedly, the KJV Bible that people use now is altered” (“Allegedly” = a SUPPOSITION); And again you said: “As someone who can relatively use computers fluently, I know that if you change just one letter, just one item on a document, that document becomes a different document. If the KJV Bible that people are using has just one letter that is different from the original, then it is not the exact same Bible as before.”

Your whole “hypothesis” is pure ASSUMPTION and CONJECTURE on your part. That is, once again, you are relying on “your own personal private “opinion” to determine this issue, and personally I’m not interested in your “OPINION” or the “opinions” of your friends either. HOW do you KNOW – HOW God looks at His words (or the spelling of His words)? Do you “think” that our God is a feckless “gnat strainer”? You’re ASSUMING that God looks at His Holy words, like you do, and you don’t have an ounce of PROOF to back up what you say. You’re entitled to your OPINION - That’s your privilege, but those of us who are genuine Bible believers (I'm referring to a BOOK that you can hold in your hands) don’t have to take your Humanistic reasoning seriously – NO NOT for even one minute!

Your “convoluted” description of translating and the translation process has NO BEARING what-so-ever on your “notions” about the King James Bible, other than the FACT that there never has been a group of Bible translators (before or after) the AV1611 translators that could even come close to their learning and knowledge of English and the various languages that they used to translate our Holy Bible. Your explanation about the “mechanics” of translating is “infantile” and “fatuous” – once again re-affirming the fact that you have NOT looked into this issue “in depth”; just like I said in my point #3.

Some of your final comments:

“I believe that there is advantage in choosing to use a phrase-by-phrase approach to translation as opposed to an exclusive word-for-word translation. I also agree that there is risk associated with translating via phrase-by-phrase. I also believe that the translators of the NIV knew what they were getting into, and I am pretty sure that they were aware of the risks associated with putting it all together. They probably spent countless hours praying over it, and they probably checked their work several times over.”

Let's "examine" some of what you have said: “I believe”; “I also agree; “I am pretty sure”; “They probably”! We need something more than your “assurance” that they “PROBABLY” and “I AM PRETTY SURE” before we throw out God’s Holy words based on your “vague” and “euphemistic” PERSONAL BELIEFS!

Your final argument against those of us who believe in the King James Bible demonstrates for all to see that your entire position is based on “your own personal private “opinions”. That is – from the beginning of your “sigh” Post #9 < > “What’s wrong with the Paraphrase Bible?”, until the end of the Post, all we were treated to were your private assumptions, speculations, conjectures, hypothesis, and suppositions; that is - “your own personal private “opinions”! And since we know NOTHING about you what-so-ever, we have absolutely NO REASON to take any of your “private opinions” seriously. As a matter of fact, you have just joined the ranks of the kooks, crazies, and crackpots that show up on this Forum about once a week, who presume to “lecture” us as to WHY our Bible is NOT Holy and WHY we are terribly mistaken.

You spoke about “the original”, perhaps you can produce a “copy” of “the original”, or tell us where we can find it, so that we can all benefit from “the original” BIBLE. And at the same time, maybe you can tell us just exactly where and when the “ORIGINAL BIBLE” (A BOOK that you can hold in your hands), came into being?

Did you check out (and read) any of the Links that I supplied you? I checked out all of the anti King James Bible “links” that you supplied us. With the exception of brother Moses LemualRaj’s essays on “Inspiration”, all of the links I supplied you were my own; and the essays and articles were written by me – not someone else. Do you have anything that you have written, or do you just depend on other people to do your thinking for you?

Have you ever read “any” of the books written by the men in the list I supplied in my letter? Have you read ANY books written by the following men?

IN THE PAST:
John W. Burgon, Edward Miller, F. H. Scrivener, Herman Hoskier, Bishop Wordsworth, Canon Cook, Sir Robert Anderson, Philip Mauro, Joseph C. Philpot, George Sayles Bishop, Benjamin C. Wilkinson, Robert Dick Wilson and Edward F. Hills.

PRESENT DAY:
J.J Ray, Terence H. Brown, Henry Coray, Zane C. Hodges, Alfred Martin, David Otis Fuller, Peter S. Ruckman, David Fountain, Gordon P. Gardiner, Wilbur N. Pickering, Donald T. Clarke, Bruce Cummins, Dick Cimino, Barry Burton, Perry F. Rockwood, , Billy Bartlett, Larry Bartlett Herbert Noe, William P. Grady, Thomas Holland, Floyd Nolan Jones, Lawrence M. Vance, Kent Brandenburg, Douglas T. Stauffer, and Michael Maynard. {I personally recommend "Forever Settled" by Dr. Jack Moorman as an excellent "first book" - if you have never studied this issue in depth.}

Have you read any of the books written by those men? If so – which ones? If you haven’t read any of these books, then you haven’t looked into this issue “in depth”, like I said in the beginning, and which I now will repeat. Unless you study both sides of an issue you CANNOT make an informed decision or judgment. And based on your foregoing Post, it’s quite obvious that you not only haven’t studied this issue "in depth", it is also perfectly clear that you have a personal bias against our Bible - That is you are prejudiced against the Holy words of God based on your own destructive and malignant private opinions!

Ask yourself: WHY are you here? Do you "think" that you are going to persuade any of us to “your point of view” with your flimsy arguments? WHAT are you trying to accomplish by coming here - to a AV1611 Bible Forum? Just WHAT is your "motive" for joining an AV1611 Bible Forum – if you don’t believe like we do? WHO do you think you are? I don’t go looking for arguments and debates on anti-King James Bible Forums. You have Christian liberty to believe whatever you want to believe (have at it); WHY does it "bother" you (so much) that we believe in the purity, perfection, and Holiness of the Holy Bible? WHAT is WRONG with us believing God, when He promised to PRESERVE His words?

Psalms 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

If you don’t want to believe God’s word, I’m NOT going to go to your (or your friends) Forum and try to persuade you to my belief. Believe what you will – it’s no skin off my nose. But know this: I (and most of the members on this Forum) have A FINAL AUTHORITY on this earth. I believe God has preserved His Holy words just exactly as He wants them in the King James Bible; and so I believe that my Bible is truly HOLY – NOT just a mere “translation”. Because of my belief in the King James Bible, it is my FINAL AUTHORITY in ALL matters of faith and practice.

On the other hand, you have NO “Final Authority” other than “your own personal private “opinions”! Someday, we shall see WHO God honors – those of us who have trusted Him to have kept His promises concerning His word; OR those “Christians” like yourself, who refuse to believe His promises, and who have, instead, decided to rely on their “own opinions”! You can rest assured that we ALL will know the “truth of this matter” at the Judgment Seat of Christ!

[Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.]

Until then, why don’t you and your “friends” keep to your own Forums, where you are free to “criticize” God’s Holy word anytime it pleases you, and we will stick to our Forum where we will Praise God for His word, and honor Him for it; and continue to defend it against “jackanapes” like yourself, who “think” that they have the right to “CORRECT”; or “ADD”; or “SUBTRACT”; or “CHANGE” God’s Holy words anytime they please!


Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.