Question about 1 Cor 3
 

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Are these verses referring to the individual believers body as the temple of God, or the church (invisible) as the temple of God?

Whichever one it is, what do these verses mean for someone who has defiled the temple of God after salvation?

Hi Luke,

It is my opinion it refers to the church. The verse uses ye/you (plural) instead of thee/thou (singular), while referring to the temple (singular) and not temples (plural). Ye (plural) are the temple (singular) of God.

Few people realize that the same Greek word is used twice in this verse. "If any man "phtheiro" the temple of God, him shall God "phtheiro"." God's temple is holy, and if someone does something bad to his temple, God in turn will do that thing to him.

God bless,
Brian

Luke, I'd have to say that God is talking here about the chastisement of the Holy Spirit upon disobedient believers or the church as a whole; "The Greek" notwithstanding, "Defile" and "Destroy" are different words with different meanings. Obviously, if God had wanted to say that He'd do the same thing to the person that they had done to His "temple," He would have said that God would "Defile" them as well. Defile != Destroy.

Keep in mind that Paul was speaking to a church full of wickedness and carnality: he might have been warning them that God would punish them as a church for their sin if they didn't straighten up. This tends to make sense to me since the church at Corinth was messed up with a lot of perversion, and God wouldn't deal kindly with His children enmeshed in that garbage.

Brother, scripture with scripture gives us the correct interpretation of what this temple is here:

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

As a Christian, if you continue to defile your body willfully then God will bring judgment upon you, and may even have to destroy your body (the wages of sin is death!). This truth is clear from several other passages:

1 Corinthians 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. 2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

This is a very serious business, hence why it is important for every Christian to confess and repent of sin regularly, and make their best attempt to live a holy life. We are to fear the Lord and depart form evil. Whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reap, and if you continue to sow to the flesh you will reap corruption, God will not be mocked.

But on this comparing scripture with scripture, the only references I can find to "destroy" all seem to be in relation to hell "destroy body and soul in hell", "destroy with everlasting fire" etc.

Yes, and what's the problem? Is the problem you can't reconcile that with OSAS?

God bless,
Brian

In a word - yes.

But it's more than that. Even if Eternal Security were not a biblical doctrine, there is only one defilement here, and God SHALL (not might) destroy them. So I guess I am asking what it means in light of all scripture, because I have defiled this temple (my body) in the past, as a Christian, and repented, but that verse leaves no room for repentance. It says God SHALL destroy. It doesn't say SHALL destroy unless he repents or something.

Then it depends on what "defile" means here, and it has largely to do (in my opinion) with the idea that we (plural) are the temple (singular). I don't see the concept of millions of temples of God in scripture, only one.

I gave you the scripture, it's in 1 Cori 5:5 "the destruction of the flesh".

Yes, but it doesn't have to mean sudden destruction, it could be a slow process, and often will be because of God's patience and longsuffering. Reminds me of Ecclesiastes 8:11 "Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil."

God "shall destroy" the body/flesh of a self-defiling Christian, but it may not happen for 5-10 years, and it might be a slow and painful process, but God shall perform that which He has said. That's what the verse means IMO.

Be not deceived, God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Sow to the flesh corruption = reap corruption of the flesh. I think this correlates nicely with that passage.

Verse 16 seems to refer to believers collectively but verse 17 is obviously to believers individually.

As Kiwi cited, 1 Corinthians 5:5 ("destruction of the flesh") sheds light to 1 Corinthians 3:17 "him" (the "temple of God") shall God "destroy". Also, 1 Corithians 6:19 talks about the physical "body" being the "temple of God".

Hi Biblestudent,

It is? How is it obvious? The man that defiles, not the temple, is the "him" later in the verse. The rest of this verse bears this out: "for the temple of God is holy, which temple (singular) ye (plural) are".

I don't think so, for the same reason: "What? know ye (plural) not that your (plural) body (singular) is the temple (singular) of the Holy Ghost which is in you (plural), which ye (plural) have of God, and ye (plural) are not your own(plurla)? For ye (plural) are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your (plural) body (singular), and in your (plural) spirit (singular), which are God's." "You" and "your" is plural in the KJV. "Thee/thou" and "thy/thine" is singular. Yes, we have individual bodies, but we are all one body (Rom 12:4-5, 1 Cor 10:17, 1 Cor 12:12-25, Eph 2:16, Eph 4:4, Col 3:15).

Nowhere do we see the singular pronoun (thee/thou) associated with a singular temple, nor the plural pronoun (you) associated with multiple temples. Besides the verses already mentioned in this thread, we see the exact same thing in 2 Cor 6:16 ("...for ye (plural) are the temple (singular) of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them (as a group), and walk in them (as a group); and I will be their God, and they shall be my people") and even more explicitly in Eph 2:20-22 ("And are built upon the foundation (singular) of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone (singular); In whom all the building (singular) fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple (singular) in the Lord: In whom ye (plural) also are builded together for an habitation (singular) of God through the Spirit.")

God bless,
Brian

Bro. Brian, do you believe that each individual Christian has the Holy Spirit dwelling inside his/her literal body at all times?

Absolutely. :)

Hi Luke,
Great question. I'm a simple guy so for me what Paul is telling the Corithians is the same thing he told the Romans:

Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The wages of sin or defiling of the temple is going to result in the destruction and death of that temple. The temple is my physical body and so the destruction and death is physical, not spiritual. One application I have always been taught relates to longevity. Why is it some live longer than others? The Corithians, because of the way they chose to live were jeopardizing their own lives. Paul told them in the first verse he was going to talk to them as children:

1Co 3:1 ¶ And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

I would think for the "eat, drink, and be merry" Corinthians (Americans? ;)) the message of eternal life combined with grace was misinterpreted as a life long party and Paul was bringing the cold harsh reality of the Christian life back home:

Ro 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Peace,
Harley

On this issue I agree with Brian T. To me the passages here that address the body are refering to the Church as a Body. I guess there is some application to the individual, but what doesn't sit right with me is how a man might defile himself by indoctrinating himself with heresy, which seems to be the context of these passages when they speak of defile.

Just mytwocents(tm). Oh and I did look into a couple commentaries (Albert Barnes, Gill, Wesley, Adam Clarke's) and this seems to be their view as well.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Bro. Brian, you believe that "body" in the passage above, mentioned twice, is a reference to the body of Christ, the church, and NOT the individual Christian. So, how do you explain verse 20 where it says "in your body, and in your spirit"? You say "your body" is the church, what is "your spirit" if not the spirit of an individual believer?

I have considered what you say about the pronouns, and agree that in some verses it is referring to the corporate body as a temple, but I also believe that every Christian's body is a temple of the Holy Ghost.

Brother Kiwi,
You are asking questions of a man who doesn't even believe in an inerrant Bible. Even worse, Brian has an entire website forum dedicated to teaching lies about the KJV. Several of us have been slapping around some 15 pages of his opinions on the thread below, starting with his post on page 9...

http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=761

John Wesley's opinon (1 Corinthians 3:16,17):

Verse 16. Ye - All Christians. Are the temple of God - The most noble kind of building, ver. 9.
Verse 17. If any man destroy the temple of God - Destroy a real Christian, by schisms, or doctrines fundamentally wrong. Him shall God destroy - He shall not be saved at all; not even as through the fire."

singular-plural-singular-plural-singular-plural, etc.

Okay, I'll try to make it clear in my mind and let others figure out whether I'm reading and understanding God's Word right.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Questions:
1. Where does the Spirit of God exactly dwell?
a. AMONG believers, without being inside their physical bodies?
b. IN THE MIDST of believers, without being inside their physical bodies?
c. Or, INSIDE THE INDIVIDUAL, PHYSICAL BODIES of all believers who are all members of the Body of Christ?
2. What does "temple of God" mean?
a. Does "temple of God" mean the believer's bodies INDIVIDUALLY?
b. Does "temple of God" mean all believer's bodies CORPORATELY?
c. Does "temple of God" not mean believer's bodies?
d. Does "temple of God" mean believer's bodies INDIVIDUALLY as well as CORPORATELY?
3. What does the passage mean?
a. Does it mean that the Spirit of God indwells the corporate Body (singular) of Christ WITHOUT indwelling the physical bodies (plural) of believers?
b. Or does it mean the Spirit of God indwells every body (singular) of every individual believer (singular), who are all members (plural) of the Body (singular) of Christ?

1 Corinthians 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

A perspective from 1 Corinthians 6:15-19:
1. The believers' physical "BODIES (plural) are the "members (plural) of Christ".
2. God forbid that the believers' physical "bodies" ("members of Christ") be made "members (plural) of an harlot (singular)".
3. An individual believer's physical "body" is "the temple of the Holy Ghost".
4. The Holy Ghost is inside the physical body (singular) of all believers (plural).

CONTEXT determines meaning.

1. Believers as a group are called "temple of God" in other passages.
2. Believers as a group are called "body of Christ" in other passages.
3. "Body of Christ", when referring to believers as a group, does not refer to Christ's physical body.
4. "Temple of God", when used in reference to believers as a group, does not refer to one physical body.

5. In 1 Corinthians 6:15, the physical "bodies" are called "members of Christ".
6. In 1 Corinthians 6:19, the physical "body" is the "temple of the Holy Ghost".

7. In 1 Corinthians 3:16,17, believers are the "temple of God".
8. In 1 Corinthians 3:16, the Spirit of God dwells "IN" believers.
If believers are the temple of God, and the Spirit of God dwells "in" believers, where is He exactly "in" - inside their physical bodies, or outside floating in the air?

I think there is a need to identify where the Spirit of God is actually dwelling "IN" so we can know what meaning to give to "temple of God".

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Looking at the passage again:

1. All believers are the "temple of God".
2. The Spirit of God dwells "in" all believers.
3. "Any man" who defiles the "temple of God" will be destroyed by God.
4. The "temple of God" is holy, and this "temple" are believers.

Question:
How exactly does the Spirit of God dwell in "believers" (plural)?
Can "temple of God" refer to all believers corporately?
Can "temple of God" refer to the physical bodies of believers individually?

Opinion
I believe the primary meaning of the passage is this:

The Holy Spirit indwells the bodies of believers for they are the temple of God. If a believer himself defiles his own body, which is the temple of God, God will destroy even him; for the temple of God is holy.

This interpretation is illustrated in 1 Corinthians 5:5 and seems to be confirmed in 1 Corinthians 6:19,20.

If this interpretation is wrong, then we will learn more here as this thread lengthens; but I think I've said most, if not all, that I have to say.:)

The quote was just to show another man's opinion, not necessarily mine.

Hi Kiwi Christian,
I think the corporate words of Paul can also apply in an individual sense as well, but there is a reason Paul said "your (plural) body" "and "your (plural) spirit" instead of "your bodies" and "your spirits". As for "your spirit", perhaps it is the common "spirit of faith" (2 Cor 4:13), unity, truth, etc.

I never see "a" temple (or multiple temples) mentioned. It's always "the" temple. Our bodies are members/parts of the temple, not individual temples.

God bless,
Brian

Hi Biblestudent,

C and also D. In the midst of believers, while being inside their physical bodies.

B.

B is true, but the passage is about the first half of A.

I don't see how you arrived at the conclusion in 3. Paul said "your body is the temple" not "your bodies are temples".

Or do you mean you believe "The Holy Spirit indwells the bodies of believers for they are temples of God"? There is a subtle difference.

God bless,
Brian

1 Corinthians 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

I see that the problem comes in when we get one definition (such as "temple of God") and force it to mean the same way every time. That's not rightly dividing the word of truth.

In the Bible, the word "body" and "temple" is used different ways, and it's also used as a reference to man's physical body.

Both of these statements are believed to be true:

1. All believers are the temple of God.
2. Each believer is also individually the temple of God.


Some illustrations:

1. "Man" is used to describe human beings as a whole
2. "Man" is also used to describe each individual.

1. All three Persons in the Godhead are one God.
2. Each individual Person in the Godhead is God.

1. All BELIEVERS are MEMBERS of the Body of Christ. (1 Cor. 12:27)
2. All BODIES of believers are MEMBERS of the body of Christ. (1 Cor. 6:15)

1. All believers are members of the CHURCH, which is the Body of Christ.
2. Local groups of believers are called a CHURCH, and all saved believers are also called the CHURCH.

Yes, words can sometimes have double meaning. That doesn't mean this is one of those instances.

"the" temple, or "a" temple? How can each be "the" temple?

Can one of the King James only Bible Believers who rightly divide please answer my original question. Brother George, or KiwiChristian or PBIWolski, or Bible Student.

If it has already been answered, can you please point me to the post. Thanks
Luke

Hi, Luke!
Please see my answers in post #12 and #22 and tell me what you think. Thanks!

Biblestudent

So is the any man an unsaved sinner, or the actual saved person? And what is the defilement? Is it something specific? And what is the destruction? Is it just the body, or the body and soul in hell?

1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

Looking at the context, I believe "any man" here have to believers. There are three mention of "any man":

1. "Any man" (v.15) whose work is burned up at the Judgment Seat of Christ will suffer loss of reward, "but he himself [referring to the "any man"] shall be saved".

2. "Any man" (v.17) refers those who are indwelt by the Spirit of God (v.16). The body (1 Cor. 6:19,20) of "any man" is holy for it is the "temple of God". If "any man" defiles his body, "him" (that is, his "flesh") shall God destroy ("destruction of the flesh"), but his "spirit" is SAVED (1 Cor. 5:5).

(Note: nothing wrong with calling one man's body "the" temple of God. There is only one church of God, but there is nothing wrong with calling a local church "THE church of God which is at Corinth", although we know that "THE church of God" is composed of believers not only in Corinth but also by all saved believers.)

3. "Any man" among the Corinthian believers ("among you") is not to deceive himself.

I believe the word "defile" refers to sin done in the body. Fornication has been the subject of the context for 1 Corinthians 5:5 and 1 Corinthians 6:19,20, but there is no indication in the Bible that defilement of the body is limited to that.

Biblestudent is making some very good points.
Luke, I also thought Kiwi did a pretty good job on the first page of the thread, his posts 4, 9 and 10 seem pretty solid to me.

It also seems to me that all of us are destined for physical destruction anyway. It's just a matter of time. We all have an appointment with death (Hebrews 9:27), there are no glorified, sin free bodies walking around on earth (Romans 3:23) we are all wrapped in sin cursed flesh.

Going back to your comment in post no. 7:
Because we have defiled this temple (our body) in the past, as believers, and repented, are we so proud to think that our bodies are still not dying around us on a daily basis? No, we are all in the same physical boats!
The wages of sin are death. Sin has KILLED US. (Romans 7:11)

After the fall, God sadly stated, "MAN IS FLESH."
"And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. (Gen.6:3).

Does this mean we are doomed to total destruction? No.
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Galatians 5:24)
Notice that implies our positional standing with regard to the flesh CHANGED FOREVER when we became adopted children of God.

But even Paul wrestled with the flesh and don't ever forget it, as shown in Romans chapter 7:

14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Also keep in mind that this would fit in with what is said in the book of Jude:

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (Jude 1:4 KJV)

The funny thing is that Rob Bell, and Donald Miller come to my mind as I meditate upon these Scriptures. I'm not sure if these wolves have denied Lord Jesus, but Unitarians sure do. It are these sorts of folks that I believe these Scriptures speak of when they speak of defiling the Temple (the Church age temple that is).

Peace and Love,
Stephen

Luke, the answer to your question lies in doing a study of how the Temple in the OT was defiled.

Also, I don't think these passages speak of blood bought sinners defiling their flesh with sin. If this were so we'd all be doomed to Hell, but it is not so. Jesus Christ payed the price for all past present and future sins, and He is merciful and just to forgive us if we will confess our sins to Him.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

Rob Bell is perverted. I've never read anything of his. Anyone that would write a book and call my Saviour a sexgod is wicked and vile. Whenever I see him, I think of some hip hepcat sodomite hanging out in starbucks with a fagbag and an art folio.

Hey Stephanos, I notice you referred to 1 John 1:9 here, do you believe that God will forgive a Christian who doesn't confess his sins to Him?

Mat 6:25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

Jesus referred to a plural of people while using a singular noun to refer to the individual. I'm pretty sure these people were not joined together in one body/spirit, nor are they going to put on a raiment that surrounds all of them as a unified body of people, so why does the Paul have to be talking about the Church as the only temple of God and not the believer as an individual?

As for defiling your body, people do it in many ways, and usually involves giving in to the fleshy desires such as doing drugs, sex, smoking, drinking, even things like eating to much. God has set it up so that your flesh will be destroyed through these things. Cancer, diseases, obesity, etc., will eventually kill you if you indulge in these things for to long.

Besides, the thought of the Lord's body becoming defiled is just silly. I mean, have you guys seriously thought about that? Are you saying we can make the Lord spotted with sin after He came out of the pit of Hell to be sinless forever and having the ability to give us that sinless perfection?

Good point. I looked at Matt 6:25 yesterday when I was studying this topic, and came to the same conclusion.

No, I think salvation is accomplished by the finished work of the Cross. But is it not indicative of a rebirth in Christ if a person acknowledges his or her sinfulness to God and asks Him for forgiveness? Since we all struggle with sin each day, wouldn't it make sense that we confess these sins to God as well (especially since our sins are done against Him)?

Here is a good article on this:

http://withchrist.org/MJS/the%20cross.htm

Peace and Love,
Stephen