spirit, soul, body
 

Brethren, I am interested in your insight and understanding regarding man as spirit, soul, & body. I know it's a "broad" subject, but if some of you have studied the doctrine and have some things you are led to share, I am interested in your comments.

“…I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Thessalonians 5:23).

Yes Sister, that is pretty basic. Let me be a little more inquisitive. We see the triune existence of humankind in the creation. Here's my understanding of that. When the spirit of man united with the body of man, Adam became a living soul. “And the Lord God formed man [his body] of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life [his spirit]; and man became a living soul” (Genesis 2:7).

Here's where I'm seeking some comments.

1. Is it specifically the "spirit" of man that was "dead" due to sin and is, subsequently, reborn and regenerated?
   
2. In the Christian life is the Holy Spirit now residing in our reborn "spirit" and instructing the "soul" of man (the mind activated) with God's divine instruction through His Word?
   
3. Is it accurate to teach that the flesh is also a "nature", not just skin, that is opposed to God and His divine influences?
   
4. Finally, is the battle between the flesh and the Spirit (Galatians 5) explained accurately like this?

When we receive Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour; He abides in us through our regenerated [new born, reproduced, renewed, and recreated] spirit and instructs our soul (mind, will, emotions) with His divine instruction, purpose, and will of God as found in His Holy Word.

Our body of flesh and its members, on the other hand, provide a conduit for unrighteous influence. The flesh is continually exposed to the things of this world (lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and the pride of life) and resists the holy influences of God.

Does this explain the fight we each experience between the “spiritual” man and the “fleshly” man. We know what we should be doing, but don’t always do it. Oh, wretched man that I am!

There is a battle occurring between God’s Spirit which operates in our renewed spirit, and our flesh which is still mortal and corruptible. We still live in a mortal and temporary body that is repeatedly exposed to sinful corruption and the temptations to do wrong.

Through the function of our soul [mind, will, or emotions] we will either submit to the leading of the Holy Spirit (which abides in our spirit), or we will yield to the lusts of the flesh which continually wars against our soul through our members.

Is this your understanding?

Amen Bro Forrest! Great expository on the triunity of man!

Hey Brother Forrest.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

We are born again through the spirit of God. The second birth as explained to Nicodemus. Through the blood of Christ our LORD and Saviour we are washed of our sin that we were "first born" dead in.

When we are born of the spirit, our Soul is bought and payed for, it belongs to God.
Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Our Body is corruptible, it is not yet complete until it is raised incorruptible.
1 Peter 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

This addresses a fact also that Christians who are "genuinely" born again, cannot be possessed, for we are born of God's spirit, our Souls belong to Him but our Mortal bodies belong to whomever we yield them to, good or evil.
A Christian certainly can "do" evil, but cannot be possessed "by" evil

Romans 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

I guess we can say that until that day when Christ calls us home we are not complete in him until we have immortality, until then we are wretched in the flesh
1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Hello Brother.

So exactly what is born again (renewed, regenerated, reborn)?

Man's spirit?

Man's soul?

Man's body?

or all three?

The Spirit is quickened (made alive) when we are born again

Ephesians 2:1,2
"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:"

the soul before salvation did not have God, before we were saved we did not have the Holy Spirit indwelling, teaching, correcting, rebuking, loving us
2nd Corinthians 5:17
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."


EDIT may i just add in the verse I intended to place in after the last statement

The Body I don't think is renewed / regenerated/ completed until we get home. This is why we still wrestle with the "old man" and the flesh.

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

I still see our bodies as corrupt, unchanged until that Glorious day our LORD calls us home or comes for us

Let's pick this up again tomorrow. (I know it's getting late there in Ireland, "laddy"). I'm going to eat supper and get in bed. Sleep good.

hehe :) , ill be up for a while studying anyways. If I am of the mark please tell me, I value your thoughts on the subject.

Well, I felt we needed to start with the basics.

I've heard that explanation of Genesis 2:7 before, and I agree with it.

Yes, yes, yes, and yes.

You're preaching to the choir here. So far, so good.

Uh huh. Eyup. Yes. Oui. Ja. Si. :D

For the sake of discussion:

Could a Christian's body be possessed, then?

Could we not yield our body to the enemy?

Yes we can very much so yield our bodies to evil, and yes I believe the body can be possessed by spirits of devils, anyone who has been backslidden turned back to alcohol or drugs etc is housing unclean spirits, what I mean by my previous statement are that for example a Christian cannot "sell" or give up his soul to the devil or evil as it belongs to God and would completely contradict the term "eternal salvation"

2 Corinthians 11:1
Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

The above verses have Paul saying that preaching another jesus results in another spirit ("familiar")much like the one Doxa and her Church experienced

Hi Brother Steve. You said, "the soul before salvation did not have God....". Is it more accurate to say, "man's spirit, before salvation did not have God? As you pointed out, Ephesians 2:1-2 says, "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:"

Is it the "spirit of man" which is quickened, made alive, renewed, reborn, and regenerated? or is it the "soul of man" which is quickened, made alive, renewed, reborn, and regenerated?

The reason I ask, is that my soul, (mind, will, and emotions) still has sinful aspects of the "former conversation the old man". The old man of Romans 6:6, is indeed crucified with Him. But the old man of Ephesians 4:22, and it's former conversation is still a present reality and must be "put off" by appropriating the realities of who and what I am in Christ, by faith. (Ephesians 4 goes on to say: be renewed, put on, put away, sin not, let not, let no, grieve not, and let all.)

It's my understanding that the "soul" is not quickened, made alive, renewed, reborn, and regenerated by the Holy Spirit. The "soul" is certainly filled, taught, reproved, instructed, and convicted by the Holy Spirit operating through our "spirit" by the instrument of God's Word. (I am vehemently opposed to the teaching of "progressive" revelation. That the Holy Spirit will speak to us outside and apart from the preserved written Word of truth, giving "new" revelation.)

The Holy Spirit, abiding in our regenerated spirit, feeds the "soul" the divine influences of God. The "flesh nature" on the other hand, feeds the "soul" the things which are contrary to God's divine influence. Thus the battle. The war between His Spirit and our flesh.

The way I am understanding it, my "soul" (mind, will, emotions) will either yield to the instruction of righteousness from the Holy Spirit which specifically operates through my "spirit" by the Word, or my "soul" will yield to unrighteousness which comes at me through the instruments of my flesh.

I see this as an important doctrine because it helps us to understand our "positional" reality of who and what we are in Christ, and our "operational" reality of who and what we are as mere mortal men who have yet to put on incorruption.

To me, it helps deal with the idea that mortal man can obtain "sinless perfectionism" in his mortal life.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Once we are saved, our soul belongs then to God, whereas unsaved unregenerate man's soul can still be taken by satan, unless of course that man looks to Christ through faith in his finished work at calvary and becomes born again.

Acts 3:22
For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
3 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Psalms 121:7 The LORD shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul.

I think it is the spirit that is renewed, the soul is bought, owned by God, cannot be sold to satan. Although yes, I agree that the soul is the (Mind, will, emotions) and of course we can fault and feel wrong doing in our soul, as the psalmist put it

Psalms 119:28 My soul melteth for heaviness: strengthen thou me according unto thy word.
(Agreed about progressive revelation, the above is a fine example of written word to ease our very souls)

Psalms 119:25 DALETH. My soul cleaveth unto the dust: quicken thou me according to thy word.


Agreed, the war between the flesh and the soul is one we will continue to fight until Christ calls us or comes for us.

1 Peter 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

Though im sure you will agree that although the soul can be influenced by the flesh, once we are born again the soul is Safe. But we still have to struggle with these wretched bodies.

I am quite open on this subject, I have learned something from you already, I by no means have this down as doctrine, settled in my heart.

The battle, as I'm sure you know is between the "flesh" and the "Spirit", not the soul. "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would" (Galatians 5:17). With that in mind, I ask, Does the Holy Spirit abide, live, and dwell in the reborn "spirit of man" or in the "soul of man"?

I agree. To me, the soul of man is in the "middle", so to speak. The Holy Spirit (which is specifically operating in our spirit), feeds the soul the righteous Word of God, and the "flesh" feeds the soul the unrighteousness of the devil. In our soul, (the will) we choose to either yield our members to righteousness or unrighteousness. Thus, we see the "free will" of even a redeemed man.

I'm seeing it like this:

The Holy Spirit, which abides or dwells in our reborn spirit is righteous > The soul - can be either righteous or unrighteous, depending on what it obeys < The flesh nature - always has a propensity to sin and is unrighteous.

Thus, the battle between the Holy Spirit (working through our spirit) and the flesh.

I see our spirit, of the redeemed person, as that part of man that has intimate communion with God and perceives, discerns, and understands the deep truths He gives us in His Word. The "spirit" of a lost person is dead, i.e., alienated from God and, therefore, cannot truly understand spiritual truth in God's Word.

I see the soul of man as that part which can be influenced by either God's righteous and divine instruction through our reborn spirit or by the unrighteous influences through our flesh.

ABSOLUTELY!

I beg your pardon brother, I hadn't realised I had said soul not spirit

Yes Sir :)

Re: body, soul, spirit
 

Aloha brother,

Job 7:17 What is man, that thou shouldest magnify him? and that thou shouldest set thine heart upon him?

Job 15:14 What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?

Psalms 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

Psalms 144:3 LORD, what is man, that thou takest knowledge of him! or the son of man, that thou makest account of him!

I believe that it is good to know about and distinguish between our body, soul and spirit {Our "Substance"}

The Body = {Our Tabernacle or Temple}
The Soul = {Our Individual Essence}
The Spirit = {Our Very Life}

However, there's a whole other side to the equation that I believe is too often overlooked:

The heart, mind, and conscience {Our "Faculties"}

The Heart = {Our "Motivator"}
The Mind = {Our "Facilitator"}
The Conscience = {Our "Regulator"}

We surely are: "I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well." [Psalms 139:14] :)

It's about time you gave some input! :)

So is the heart, mind, and conscience applicable, depending on the context of scripture, to both the "spirit of man" and "the soul of man"?

Re: spirit, soul, body
 

Aloha brother Forrest,

Rather than go into any depth (at this point at least) I would ask you to check out my study on the Biblical Heart of Man on my web site > Under the Title > "The Heart of the Matter": thywordistruthkjv.com

Enclosed therein is an approximately 250 page study on the heart (and the other "Faculties" and "Substance" of man). This study is the result of 6 months of intensive searching and another year of putting it together. {The "Final" study has not been posted to the web site because of some technical difficulties having to do with "Graphics". I would be happy to mail a copy to you should you desire.}

Please read the study first (at least those parts that may be of interest to you), and then we might get into some fruitful discussion, because honestly, I would be the first one to confess that I don't have a complete handle on everything within the study - especially about the "spirit" within man - NOT the Holy Spirit. :)

Direct Link to The Heart of the Matter on George's page for you.

Thank you Brother George and Sister "JaeByrd" for the info.

Brother George I've been looking at the wrong site. (I failed to add kjv at the end.) I will read off of your web page, no need to send a hard copy; thanks for offering.

This has been, and continues, to be a very interesting study to me. I continually see scriptures that seem to address and apply to the specific aspects of man's triune being. In some cases, it seems to me that when the word "mind" is being used, it is actually addressing the mind of man's "spirit" and not the mind of his "soul".

Like the verses in 1 Corinthians 2:10-16, for example.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

In my opinion, there are those amazing scriptures that proclaim our absolute "righteousness" in Christ Jesus. "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" (2 Corinthians 5:21). and, "In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:" (Colossians 1:22).

I know the realities of my daily life in thought, word, or deed, and yet, I stand and rest in the promises of scripture. In Christ, I am made the righteousness of God! In Christ, I am deemed holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight! Is that amazing?

My soul (mind, will, and emotions) certainly sins. No good thing dwells in my flesh. So what's righteous? What's holy, unblameable, and unreproveable? I've concluded that it is my reborn, renewed, regenerated, "spirit" which is sealed until the glorious day of redemption.

And now, I must reckon, by faith, these realities of who and what I am in Christ. I should abstain, flee, put off, put on, pray, study, rightly divide, reckon, yield and yield not, and mortify. Not in order to obtain righteousness or holiness, but because I already am righteous and holy in Christ Jesus. I've come to realize the practical victory (not entirely) and exceeding joy that comes from simply turning fully to the Lord Jesus Christ for grace to help in my time of need. For power to live the genuine Christian life. None of me, all of Him!

I look forward to reading your study on the "heart" and the "substance" of man.

Re: Heart of the Matter"
 

Aloha brother Forrest,

I to have wondered for years about many of the same things that you have concerns about and I will be happy to discuss any part of the lesson with you at any time.

I believe that you will find the study on the Heart very interesting and edifying - I have some Graphics on my hard copy that I have been unable to convert to HTML, and so the Lesson on the web page is not as "complete" and up to date.

I have been a Christian for 50 years and have attended various churches and I have never heard a sermon or any teaching on this issue. I wonder why? could it possibly be because:
["The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Jeremiah 17:9]

Hello Brother George. I've read your thorough essay on the heart.

(http://www.thywordistruthkjv.com/heartofthematter.htm)

And thoroughly enjoyed and benefited from it. (I especially love and appreciate your concluding commits on Lesson 10.)

I'm still left with the question which is open for discussion:

1) What, if any, is the scriptural connection that is made between our substance (spirit, soul, body) and our faculties (heart, mind, conscience)?

It seems to me, there is a close, almost, parallel connection made in scripture between the "heart" of man and the spirit, soul, and body of man. In addition, it also seems to explain the "positional" reality of who I am in Christ, as well as the "operational or experiential" reality of what I am in Christ in this daily mortal life.

We've seen this very thing illustrated by (born-again, washed in the blood, Bible believing Christians) on this very Forum. In Christ, we are positionally redeemed, justified, forgiven, sanctified, cleansed, and declared righteous. Yet as mortal human beings we are often operationally unkind, unloving, inconsistent, imperfect, mean humans. "Oh wretched people that we are!"

2) The spirit, the soul, the body? The heart, the mind, the conscience?

3) The uncircumcised heart of flesh? The circumcised heart through rebirth?