UFOs...
 

Ok, over the past month, I've read posts, especially in the Ruckman thread about some posters saying they don't believe in UFOs and questioning Ruckman's position on UFOs... I am not aware of Ruckman's position on UFOs because I haven't rea dthat material yet and would like but I do know my own position and it is this:

I believe in UFOS... as a Satan deploy to distract people away from the Lord questioning the creation account... Satan is after all the prince of power of the air now (can't find that verse right now but I know it's in there...) 2 Corinthians 11:14 "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." So with that verse in mind, just as Satan can fake an apparition of Virgin Mary, can he not fake an apparition of UFOs?

or... it could be something that God allows people to see because they rather believe a lie than a truth...

2 Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:"

People does tend to be so blind to the truth that they'd rather believe there are UFOs out there than that God had created men in the image of God which some, who profess to believe in UFOs, would tell you that's high minded. (Yet, at the same time, say nothing of the New Agers who say god is in each of us... note the lower case g by the way...)

Then again, there's the flying roll of Zechariah 5:1-4

"1. Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold
a flying roll.
2. And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a
flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten
cubits.
3. Then said he unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over
the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as
on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as
on that side according to it.
4. I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall
enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth
falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall
consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof."
(Zechariah 5:1-4)

My point is this: as long as Satan is in control of the world, he will do anything at all, UFOs sightings, Virgin Mary apparition, or any kind of image at all, to make people doubt God and The Book. That right there is the whole point of the little green me. If you see one, shoot it.

A U.F.O. in it's own terminology is simply an unidentified flying object. Everybody believes in them. If we're talking about slimy, green men, that's a different story.

In Zech. 5, the object is identified, yet that is not always the case in scripture. Try II Sam. 5:24 - something is going above the mulberry trees.

Dr. Ruckman has done extensive research into the accounts of u.f.o. sightings, and has been impressed at the "caliber" of people making claims. His conclusions yield airline pilots, high ranking military personnel, and others of distinguished reputation are now doped up in a loony ward for some unexplained reasons.

He takes a biblical stance on everything, and therefore determined these aren't necessarily "aliens from outer space" (as the lost would view), but perhaps rather some form of interterrestrial devilment. He has plenty to say and speculate on the matter, but all in all I love how he aims to see everything in the light of the Book.

Well, that is what makes Ruckman a "Ruckman". I like him. He's a fallible man that preaches and teaches the Infallible Book!

Can't remember any little green men or alien ducks in the Bible. What chapter was that in?

I do believe that there are some kind of phenomena that some people see and that get called UFOs, that are the work of demons. I believe they are an illusion created to deceive. Some Christian teachers, for instance Scott Johnson whose studies are at Sermon Audio.com, believe they are increasing as we approach the last days because they will play a part in the Antichrist's deception. Some of his teachings are pretty far out but if the Antichrist is going to be able to do signs and wonders that truly dazzle the world, and nearly deceive the elect, we should be willing to consider the possibility of satanic tricks well beyond our usual expectations.

No ever said there were little green men in the Book... I simply stated if you see one, shoot 'em...

I'm just trying to get a good discussion out of this subject, nothing else...

Connie, I completely agree with you. A ploy by Satan and if you were to check out www.ufomaps.com you'd see that there are sightings all over the country, especially around California, Ohio, Florida, and Texas...

Ruckman teaches that there are all kinds of extraterrestials, including aliens that look like ducks.

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/peterr...daffyduck.html

Wow, thanks for that link to David Cloud's page on Ruckman. Seems to me the man BELIEVES all the illusions the demons are creating, plus maybe a few of his own invention.

Thanks, timothy, there are too many sightings to dismiss as people hallucinating. SOMETHING is going on. I read a book by a UFO expert some years ago (somebody Vallee, not a Christian) that argued that reports of these things are similar to the stories of fairies and leprechauns and other spirit creatures, that keep up with the technology of the age they occur in, and he thinks they are some kind of spiritual deception! And he's not even a believer.

Jacques F. Vallee. I just looked him up. There's a Wikipedia article on him that describes his thinking on this subject.

He hasn't figured out that it's a satanic deception but at least he's arguing with the people who think it's extraterrestrials.

Have you read his book on this subject?

I have no desire to read it - these quotes are bad enough for me. I don't have to eat a rotten apple myself to know it is rotten if I can already see it is brown and mushy.

He gives pages numbers for his specific statements and quotes. Are they there or not? Are the statements taken in context? Should be pretty easy to verify if you have that book.

HE mentions UFO's however he clarify's that it is Satan and his Devil disguising as Aliens. this is one of their ploys with the New Agers. the Devil gots them believing they are commnication with Aliens from another planet. UFO's are just unidentified Flying object lots of atmospheric phenona (sp?) happens allthe time.

Read his book Black is Baeutiful

Sometimes people tend to leave out vital details when they talk about people, especially when they don't like that person. (concerning that website)

Ruckman: “If a twentieth-century college educated American does not believe in UFOs (and UFO occupants) he is MENTALLY SICK. He should see a shrink”:D

I don't have trouble listening to Ruckman. I don't have access to that book "Black is Beautiful" or never heard him teaching about UFOs. But that's right, you have to read Ruckman and keep him in context. The man just loves the Book and looks at everything by the Book. If I don't agree with him on certain things, and he calls me an unbelieving “jack leg” and a “bloated egotist”, I might just respond with a big :D

It's real easy to take brother Ruckman out of "context". He has written over 100 books; maybe 50 or more booklets; and has hundreds (perhaps thousands) of hours on tape. I can assure you that he doesn't believe in "little green men" or most of the outlandish UFO theories.

Sometimes he will engage in speculation when it comes to these matters but he clearly doesn't teach these kinds of peripherial subjects as "doctrine". And if you will read his books he always distinguishes between something that might be "possible" (UFO's, etc.) and those doctrines that are sure and without out a doubt absolutely true.

If these quotes are being taken out of context and with out Ruckman's "caveat", then he is being misrepresented (once again), and being made out to be some kind of "Kook" and "False teacher".

I marvel at the willingness of some of the brethren on this site, to not hesitate to malign this man (every time his name pops up) - whom they have not met; have not heard; have not read (very much); and know so little about.

Do all the verses warning us about judging (especially brethren) mean so little to these critics, that they think (or believe) that God is not going to judge them for their "hasty" condemnation of another brother in Christ?

If they know so little about the man; his ministry; his works; and his fruit - I keep asking myself - Why this animous? Why the instant retort to demean, and tear down? Why will Christians not hesitate criticize? Rather than just let things be and let God deal with him? If they knew him, there might be scriptural reason to judge. But by their own admission they refuse to read him personally and yet except second and third hand reports when judging him. Why if you won't read him, to check out the record for yourself, why do you persist in defaming another brother in Christ? WHY?

I suggest youbuy or borrow Ruckmans book "Black is Beautiful" in it he gives clearly what he teaches abut UFO's and the Devils.

I read some of the things some are saying. never once have I personaly heard of Ruckman saying aliens lok like ducks.

est to go to the source then you decide.

I don't have the money to buy Dr. Ruckman's book, but I would like to know if he has been taken out of context by David Cloud. I respect David very much in his research. I would appreciate anyone who has the book to post the quotes with the added context about the ducks and needing a psychiatrist (since I don't believe in aliens).

The Bible does NOT teach Christians are not to judge. What it does teach is that we are not to judge hypocritically or based on our own standards. We are to judge righteously. This is from God's Word:

1 Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

I didn't defame Ruckman in this thread. I gave a link where quotes were given from him on this subject. Verify it - prove it right or wrong - but quit calling your brethren wrong who are obeying God and using Biblical discernment to gauge what others are teaching - as we are commanded to do.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Brother Jerry, why judge at all? I have never said or even intimated that we are not to judge - no not once, ever! What I have said (over & over again) is we should be following the Scriptural commandments; admonitions; and guidelines, when we DO judge.

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

These verses do not teach that we are not to judge - but they do teach that we ought to be mighty "careful" when we do judge. My question has always been: Why be so quick to judge? Why no hesitation to condemn a fellow Christian? Is brother Peter Ruckman a "heretick" [Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;], whom we can reject out of hand? If so, say so, and prove it!

Don't you have just a little fear of God in light of the preceding verses? We are told to: "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. If you don't know the brother; have never heard him preach or teach; and have read very little of his works (and refuse to read anymore) - How can you possibly judge "Righteous Judgment"?

We know that you have a high regard for brother David Cloud (you've said so and you have posted his URL on several occasions on this Forum); and we know that brother Cloud and brother Ruckman have had a personal "feud" going between them since 1985 (Read: "What About Ruckman?" by David Cloud); Why take sides? Why join the fray?

Brother Cloud has a whole page on his website devoted to bashing brother Ruckman (interestingly enough, brother Ruckman doesn't have a whole page on his website devoted to bashing brother Cloud), do you have to continually join in the "bashing"? I suspect that most of what you "know" about brother Ruckman comes from brother Cloud (second hand) and not from brother Ruckman himself (first hand). Why can't you let "sleeping dogs lie"?

I'm "tempted" to criticize brother David Cloud (because of some of his writings and "attitude"), but I forbear because I don't know him or his writings that well and I can't see how its very "edifying" (to anyone) to criticize or condemn a fellow brother in Christ (although there are occasions where admonishing; reproving; or rebuking a brother in Christ may be appropriate.)

Mark 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

Luke 9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Someday (Soon I hope) the Lord is going to take us out of this sewer that we all live in, and He is going to transport us up to Heaven, where we are ALL going to face the "Judgment Seat of Christ". I can assure you that at that time, any sins that brother Ruckman has committed and hasn't confessed and repented of, that he will answer to the Lord - just exactly as you and I and brother Cloud will answer to the Lord for our un-confessed and un-repented of sins in our own life. 2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Until then why can't we be less "critical" of brothers in Christ that we really don't know that well, and leave his judgment up to God instead.

Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Ruckman knocks Cloud in his own books.

The Bible commands us and teaches us to be discerning - to compare everything taught by anyone with the Word of God itself. I have a problem with Ruckman because some of his teachings do NOT line up with the Word of God - and out of obedience, I take note of that warn others about it.

Sorry, I don't believe in the lovey-feel good Christianity that says let everyone believe and do what they want as long as we call them our brethren. The Bible teaches us to be discerning and expose what does not line up. I am doing so. Sorry if you refuse to heed your Bible in this area.

Brother Ruckman doesn't have a whole page on his web site devoted to criticizing and bashing brother Cloud - But David Cloud has an entire page on his web site criticizing and bashing brother Ruckman. (That speaks "volumes" about the difference between the two men!)

My previous post was not in reference to "discerning", it is in reference to "judging" You have a "knack" for ignoring the salient points of others and hastily judging them without much evidence i.e. your quote in reference to me: If you refuse to read and check out brother Ruckman's works (first hand) and instead rely on others for your information about him you can't possibly judge him fairly or righteously ("hearsay" is not allowed in a "court of law" - why would you rely on it when judging a fellow Christian?)

I don't believe in the "lovey-feel good Christianity", and if you are accusing me of holding that view come out and say it. "Real men say what they mean, and mean what they say"! I've been a Christian for 50 years and in that whole time no one, I repeat, no one has ever accused me of being a "lovey-feel good" kind of Christian. All you have to do is read my posts on this Forum or my essays and lessons on my web site and you would know better - but on the other hand maybe you would prefer to "judge" me by "hearsay" also? I've been called many things in the last 50 years - but I've never been accused of being soft! I'm offended! :rolleyes:

But on a serious note: You might just consider that I have been aware of the King James issue and the "players" involved since 1968; I believe that I read where you came upon the "issue" about 1998 or so - do you think it possible that I "might" know just a "little" more than you about who and what is involved in this debate, if I have had an approximately 30 year head start on you?

You weren't around in 1968 or 1978 or 1988 fighting this battle when Edward Hills, J. J. Ray, David Otis Fuller, and Peter Ruckman were practically the only ones around that were contending for the faith in "The Book", and practically all of the so-called Christian schools (and Christian "scholars" - scribes) were ignoring Hills, Ray, and Fuller - but they couldn't "ignore" Ruckman! He wouldn't let them!

If you are ignorant of this time, you shouldn't be so hasty to condemn a man, whom I know - because I witnessed it "first hand"; that God used (despite his many "faults) mightily in the defense of His Holy Word. You weren't there, you didn't observe or experience what happened - I did. How quickly God's people forget, or worse yet - never bother to inquire.

Today there are many men of God that now take a strong stand for the King James Bible - back then there were only a small handful of men that stood against the "Tide" of "Unbelieving Christian Scholarship" and many of them were not very effective, but Peter Ruckman was. I know this to be true because I was there - and you weren't. "Discern" all you want brother (I notice that in your post that you avoided the word - "Judge"), but I would advise you to be "careful" when you "judge" a brother in Christ - whom you do not know.

I've come to notice something about these forums. Like most things, they have a good and bad aspects to them. The good thing is that they allow Christian brothers and sisters to come together to discuss their trials and tribulations. It also lets them tell of the work God is doing in their lives. It gives them an opportunity to up lift each other and let elders give advice. The bad thing about it is negative comments that come along with it. I often read post where one brother is railing on another brother or sister. There are bigger things in the world that Christian brothers and sisters should be dealing with besides who said what about them. There are millions of widows, fatherless children, poor, imprisoned, hungry, and thirsty people out there that we should be reaching instead of arguing with each other. One thing we soon forget is that there is an enemy out there. He is the one the fight against. Not with each other. In Jude 4 he talks about men that crept in unaware to the people. Well these forums allow an opportunity for the enemy to creep in and try to cause confusion and mallace between brothers and sisters.

My point is we need to concern ourselves with the things of the Lord. Such go out into the world and preaching the gospel. Feeding the poor. Visiting the prisoners. Taking care of the widows and fatherless. Exposing the false teachers in the churches. Looking for the coming of our Lord. Fighting each other is not one. The forums have a good purpose behind it but with the absent of elders who everybody is accountable to then we have arguments and fights and false doctrines creeping in. Brothers and sisters let's stop fighting and use these forums to uplift each other, tell about fights with the enemy, give advice to the babe's in Christ, and just tell about the Goodness of the Lord in our lives.

(sorry about the spelling and punctuation)

Thanks for the info, George! This almost led me to tears.Praise God for such a man, despite of the critics, remained true to his calling. Amen!

Ok, I didn't mean for this thread to turn into another bashing/defense of Cloud/Ruckman so if you can all just take it back to the "other Dr. Ruckman thread" please do so because I meant this to be a study of UFOs as a Satan ploy to decieve people (as I am also sick of reading that thread anyways and no way do I want to have started a clone...) But I did just ordered the "Black is Beautiful" book so I will be seeing for myself as some people obviously wouldn't.

Discerning IS judging - it is judging whether something is right or wrong, whether it lines up with the Bible or not - whether it comes from God or not.

No, I don't need to know Ruckman for 40 years, read 100 of his books, and know his birthdate and favourite ice cream flavour to be able to discern what I have read of his. I can't judge ALL of his material, but I can certainly judge what I have already read and been exposed to - and form my own conclusion on what the rest must be like based on what I have already seen and read.

OK, I'll come back to UFOs. I've believed for years that they are a satanic deception, but only recently have been paying attention to how they are probably designed for a particular objective to unfold in the times of the Antichrist. This is related to the doctrine of the "Ascended Masters" that was originally taught by the 19th and early 20th century spiritualists and satanists like Madame Blavatsky, Alice Bailey and Alistair Crowley. These "Ascended Masters" are demons who conveyed their doctrines to Blavatsky at least and maybe also Bailey (I haven't followed all the details of this).

They aren't considered by the believers in this stuff to be demons of course, but superior beings, extraterrestrials who are supposed to have planted the seeds of the human race at some time in the past and have been watching over us and are probably going to appear in some form in the last days because we "need help" or something like that. Among New Agers apparently this idea has been continuing, especially since some of them do "channel" (are possessed by) demonic spirits who continue to preach the same old doctrines of demons. The number of people who are possessed by demons in this world has probably increased enormously since the 60s and 70s.

A Course in Miracles that Oprah Winfrey has been sponsoring on daily radio broadcasts since the first of this year is supposed to be an example of the superior wisdom of these superior beings -- Stuff like: You are the source of your own salvation, Jesus came not to die for us but to teach us wisdom, we aren't sinners so the idea of an atonement for sin is ridiculous and childish, and various other similar blasphemies.

I've been getting this mostly from Scott Johnson's talks which he posts at Sermon Audio. I know some of his stuff is pretty far out but he provides plenty of documentation, and even if some of it is off the wall or turns out to be false I'm sure he's on the right track. If even part of it is true as he teaches it, the signs and wonders that will probably suddenly burst upon this planet are going to take our breath away.

He also believes that the Nephilim of the Bible are somehow involved in this, the "mighty men of old" who were the offspring of angels and humans. He tracks what the media are doing, TV programs -- stuff most of us probably have never heard of, at least I hadn't -- that are promoting characters that are nonhuman or part human.

No need here to get into the specifics, I guess, you can always go and listen to Johnson's talks. The point is that UFOs are most likely part of the great delusion that is coming on the earth, when all the world except those who are the Lord's will follow the Antichrist, who will preside over some amazing "revelation" of things most people have never even thought about but is really a massive satanic deception.

So the fiction will be that UFOs are these benevolent beings who have been spying on us and supposedly have our best interests at heart and so on and so forth, and maybe have even been involved in genetic experiments so that there will be a return of the Nephilim. I don't know how much of the specifics we can know in advance, but it seems like a good idea to have in mind that some kind of spectacular strange phenomena are in the devil's plans and abilities for the near future, and UFOs are a part of them.

Of course God is in charge of all of it. It is God who is going to bring the strong delusion on those who will believe in all this. But we should be praying and probably fasting, stepping up our pleas to the unsaved, and learning how to keep our armor well fastened if we are to be here for any of it.

Re: brother Jerry's Post #25


Sorry brother Tim,

I'll get off this thread after this.

Webster's 1828 Dictionary

DISCERN, v.t. s as z. L., to separate or distinguish, Gr.

1. To separate by the eye, or by the understanding. Hence,

2. To distinguish; to see the difference between two or more things; to discriminate; as, to discern the blossom-buds from the leaf-buds of plants.

Discern thou what is thine--Genesis 31.

3. To make the difference.

For nothing else discerns the virtue or the vice.

4. To discover; to see; to distinguish by the eye.

I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding. Proverbs 7.

5. To discover by the intellect; to distinguish; hence, to have knowledge of; to judge.

So is my lord the king to discern good and bad. 2 Samuel 14.

A wise mans heart discerneth time and judgment. Ecclesiastes 8.

DISCERN, v.i.

1. To see or understand the difference; to make distinction; as, to discern between good and evil, truth and falsehood.

2. To have judicial cognizance.



Once again you have avoided dealing with most of the points in my post, and instead you have managed to trivialize my testimony with: {When you won't or can't handle dealing with legitimate points you either ignore them or come up with some "cutesy" remark in order to deflect attention away from a fact or the truth - reminds me of some of my kids when they were growing up!}

According to Webster's: Discerning is separating or distinguishing a matter; i.e. between "good " and "evil", etc. Discerning is not "JUDGING" another brother in Christ! You can't "cherry pick" your own "private interpretation" of a word any more than you are supposed to "privately interpret" Scripture. {Oh, you can try - but I'll be here to continually remind you.}

Your continual bashing of brother Ruckman is NOT so much "discerning" a matter; as it is JUDGING another brother in Christ and his "Ministry" and that is what I have been objecting to for several weeks now - and you don't seem to "get" the difference.

Discern all you want,

Please answer these two questions:

#1. Is brother Peter Ruckman a "FALSE TEACHER"?

#2. Is brother Peter Ruckman a "HERETIC?"

If he is either of the above, say so and then PROVE it - not by mere "accusations" or statements taken out of context, but by cold hard facts.

If he is not a "False Teacher" or a "Heretic", then why, (every time his name shows up on this Forum) do you not hesitate to take another "crack" at him personally?

You are not just "discerning" between right and "wrong", I would have no problem with that. No, this is "personal"; this is more than just "discernment" - this is a personal "vendetta" (on your part) against a man who God has used (my first hand personal testimony); and whom you know little or nothing about; but whom you continually slander, malign, and impugn.

Romans 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

A word to the wise should be sufficient - but on the other hand . . . . . ? :rolleyes:

I've recently re-read a great book called 'Alien Intrusion: UFOs and the Evolution Connection' by Gary Bates. Gary is a Christian/creationist who has studied the subject for years and his book is well documented and referenced.
Among his observations are:
The messages from 'aliens' seek to re-interpret the Bible. Never the Bhaghavad Gita, nor the Koran, but always the Bible. This gives us a clue as to who is behind these visitations.
Throughout history, these appearances has taken the forms familiar to the cultures to which they appeared (canoes, shields, etc).

There is too much information in this book to go into great detail; all I can say is that I highly recommend it. It is available from Creation Ministries International.

Hope this helps.

Yours in Him

Right - and I am discerning between what is said by a Bible teacher or preacher and comparing it to the Bible - as God commands me. Sorry you have a problem with that - but I guess that would be YOUR problem, as I choose to continue to obey the Lord and critique all that is taught supposedly from the Word of God, and I am not going to feel guilted into thinking I am doing wrong because others won't apply those passages to their pet teachers or doctrines.

Philippians 1:9-10 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;

Oh oh, there's that word again!

Hebrews 5:12-14 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Make you a deal: you stop trying to badger me and tell me I have no right to critique Ruckman or anyone else, and I will stop DEFENDING my Biblical right AND RESPONSIBILITY to do so. The issue isn't even Ruckman - though he is the one being discussed - the issue is does God command us to be discerning of those teaching Bible doctrine? Yes, He does; therefore I do.

The book by Gary Bates sounds like a good source of information.

Yes, the nonChristian researcher Jacques Vallee had noticed this fact, that the appearances stick within the technological experiences of a particular culture. They came from "space" in the century when people were thinking about space travel, but never in that form earlier. Now, if Vallee had also noticed that the messages attack only the Bible, as you say Bates points out, he'd be in a good position to become a Christian himself.

As was state above, the idea of UFOs is not really the issue. It is aliens that is a problem. At the risk of appearing self-laudatory (esp. being a new poster), I just wrote an article on Aliens that attempts to give a biblical/theological rationale for rejecting the idea of aliens. Hope it helps!

Okay cloudites, ruckmanites and don't careites.

I bought "Black is Beautiful" along with other stuff I actually needed for TBDI. Since every anti-ruckmanite references this book to somehow discredit the King James Bible (???), because it speaks about UFO's, I thought I would see what the fuss is about.

Personally, I can't make head or tail of the book. I'm not refuting it, (I don't really even know what it's about, mainly because it makes reference to a bunch of Americans and I have no idea who they really are - JFK for example. I know of him, and he was shot, but that's about it) but I am saying I have it. If you want clarification on anything written within, I am willing to clarify (I can't just paste entire paragraphs though, it's against the copyright written in the front of the book).

Please stop wasting any more time even thinking about Satan, UFO's, or "apparitions".

Michael,

it is always good to know thy enemy and his methods.

I want you to know I have seen some strange things. I saw a floating head at 2am in my bedroom one night. No moon a very dark night. at first I thought it was a left over dream I blinked a couple times, then its eyes looked to my wife from my daughter. that is when I realized it was a evil spirit. then it looked straight at me. when it did I could see it's expression change becuase it could tell I could see it. then in my heart the Bible verse came through, "he that is in you is stronger than he who is in the world", Then I sat up pointed to the outside of my house and without speaking audibly I said "My Lord rebuke thee leave now and never come back. At that moment like a bolt of lightening it went straight throught he wall to the outside. it has never been back as far as I know.

One night the dog was barking very strangely. so I got up to look. it was full moon. at the far end of the vacant lot across the street I saw in the shadows of the tree a 12 to 16 foot solid black shape like a person. then it came slowly forward across the lot and it passed through the moonlight. when it hit the light it became even darker like it was absorbing the light like a black hole. it came out of the lot and went up the street and was gone. and I have heard tails from the local tribal people here of all sorts of things like harpies, satyrs and the like.

So to identify the ways of Satan and his angels is not such a bad thing to know. but dwelling on them is another thing.

forgive my mispelled words sometime I type without conscience resulting in mispellings

Where did this happen, chette? What country? I think we might soon enough be seeing such phenomena in America.

I have known people to see simular things in the States even years ago. But this happened here in the Philippines

the head was on Dec 29, 2005 that was the first time I ever seen a spirit or devil, the shadow was just last year. there are other unexplained things like a smoking tree when I approacehed the tree the smoke stopped. the shadow is called Capri and they like to smoke too.

Dennis now one of our members back in 2003 just after getting saved, had two persons in white ask if they could stay in his tree because the wife was pregnant and the tree they were staying at was always being smoked by the people who live in the house (a common practice to kill mosquitos). he said yes, after that a giant black man appeared and was trying to get his daughter at night coming through locked door to rape her. he never got her Dennis chased him off by yelling at it in Jesus name.

When he finallys told with me, I showed them through the Bible he had been speaking to two devils disguised as people, and when you let one in others will come with them. so we prayed over his home and trees and lot. they never appeared again and today they are still demon free.

Can you see how trees and devils go together. the Bible has lots of examples of tree groves and devil (Idol) worship.

I saw not to long ago what seemed and could very well be a very large (and I do mean large) flying fox. it is a type of large bat but this one was really big. I heard it fly into a mango tree across from our house in the same empty lot one night while getting up touse the bathroom. when I spread the curtain to look I was amazed at the size of this thing. the branch bent under it's wieght and one wing hung to the ground almost 8 ft so this thing had a wingspan of 16 feet when it flew. I watched until it flew away. earier in the month I was comng back one night from Dennis house when what I believe to be the same bat flew over my head. I literally ducked because it was huge and it's wings spanned the whole road I could feel the wind off of it. a that Time I was not sure what it was just big black bat. then when I saw it in the tree I knew it was the same bat. I told a neighbor about it and the story went around of a vampier in the neighborhood. well the streets were clear of the kids at night for the rest of the month until I explained it was just avery large bat. but it could very well carry away a small child if it had a chance.

yes you will see more spirit activity in the States. but it says as in the days of Noe so shall it be in the day of the coming of the Son of man. during Noahs day the sons of God were mating with women having giants for babies.

the Adverage hieght of the basketball player is now 8ft, there are some men in China that are 9ft tall and perfectly proportionate no health issues they are completely normal health wise. I saw Hulk Hogan one time quickly on a TV standing next to a guy who dwarft him by what looked like 2ft. this guy was normal propotionate WWF Wrestler and the men he was wrestling were just as big. there are giants in the land again.

also just an observation but the Mormon missionaries ae getting taller by the year too.

Spooky stuff :eek:

The Lord was definately with you on the floating head thingy. Any more details on "the bat"?

I beleive the gift of discerning of spirits is strongly needed,

There is a group here they blend all sorts of verses to create their ministry of Hip Hop dance. I was invited to a going away party earlier this year where this ministry was allowed to perform. I was shocked it was not different than the kids on the streets of LA, grabbing themselves shaking it and all the moves were the same. the only different it was to some music that would be concidered christian entertainment at best(not worship) and the lyrics were about Jesus. I could see in two of the supposed ex gang members that they were possessed of a devil.

When they came around to shake everybodys hands when they got to me neither one of these men could look me straight in the eye. they spent time with everyone while coming around joking and kidding but when it came to me both of them made a quick get away I wouldn;t have been able to say anything if I wanted to to them because they just wanted to get away so qickly. My wife was shocked at their reactions too.

I have no doubt of Devil possessed people in these Psuedo christian churches. they do all sorts of dancing and singing and yelling I mean up to almost two hours and only 15 minutes preaching and it is usually for their members to give more, every Sunday.

I know this has nothing to do with UFO's but the Devil is the one behind them both.

I haven't seen the bat lately. some would say it is a witch or what they call here a aswang (it is like a devil with bat wings and big teeth often witches turn into them).