I'm done for tonight, brother.
I'll post again when time allows.

To say that Matthew 24 is fulfilled in 1948 and 70 A.D. can be conjecture. Right?

Although I believe in "double fulfillment", and 1948 and 70 A.D. can be a partial fulfillment, I believe that Matthew 24 will actually be fulfilled in the Tribulation period. That is, can't the temple be destroyed in the midst of the week. Will not Israel be rescattered in the midst of the week and regathered at the Second Coming?

See you tomorrow, Brother!

It's daytime here, but I'll just continue with some more posts.

Hi there, peopleoftheway!

That's exactly the point.

Since the Church and the Rapture is not in view, then "all these things" have to be the SIGN of the Second Coming.

Therefore, to say that "the beginning of sorrows" is in the Church Age is INCONSISTENT. "The beginning of sorrows" and "the great tribulation" -- "all these things" are a SIGN of the Second Coming.

Matt 24:3

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
KJV

Matt 24:33

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
KJV

:D Okay. Let's stop calling it "rapture". Let's call it the Caught Up.
Or maybe, let's not call it a "pretribulation rapture". Let's say we believe in the God Has Not Appointed Us To Wrath.

By the way, I'm not an American; but if there are "a total 70 weeks", what do you call the last week of the seventy weeks? Is it wrong to say "70th week"?

Hey Biblestudent!

I logged off shortly before your "hello" :)

HELLO! :D

I believe the same as yourself, I have no need to place scripture in the mix here as there has been plenty offered up. I believe that the tribulation is the 7 years starting at the beginning of sorrows and building and building unto the 2nd half of the week when the covenant is broken and GREAT tribulation is set in motion by the Beast and the false prophet.

Hermai
Hi, I agree to disagree, if you believe in a pre-tribulation rapture but you believe that it will be at the midpoint (as we see it). 7 years have been left in prophecy to fulfill scripture in Daniel and for God to pour out judgment on Israel, 7 has to be all tribulation for the sake of completion, The 3 1/2 years of "false peace" "the anti-christ's rule" are a mockery by the anti-Christ of the LORD Jesus Christ's physical presence here on earth the following 3 1/2 years are the subsequent Horrors that ensue. ALL of these things require the 7 years prophesied for completion.

I don't think we will come to agreement here Gentlemen, and for the sake of fellowship I would cease with the debate. I have every confidence that you wont change Biblestudents mind and I get the impression he wont change yours, so .....

I heard a Seventh day adventist on Hope TV teach exactly what herami is teaching here. they don't believe in a pretrib gathering of saints but that there is a gathering at the mid and some have to endure to the end.

That's not even close to what I believe or am talking about on this thread.
Please take the time to read what I am actually talking about before you try to state what I believe.

I am a King James dispensational Bible believer who understands Paul to be the apostle to the Gentiles and given the mysteries pertaining to the church.

A mid-week position is just as valid in a dispensational, pre-trib set-up as a pre-week position.

In fact, Ruckman and Donovan lean towards such a position.

Ruckman teaches a seven-year tribulation period. I don't know about Donovan.

Hermi,

I only stated that I heard a similar teaching to what you were sharing.

so dont get yourself all in a bunch.

Pre week trib is not acceptable because the antichrist makes himelf known at the beginning by making a 7 year pact with Israel that is broken in the mid week or 3 1/2 years. Part of thetribulation is the Son of perdition who institutes peace and safetly for all. but mid way he wants everyones worship and brings in 3 1/2 years of pure wrath.

Paul doesn't teach anything on Jacobs trouble or the great tribulation. He only has the church gathering to Christ before the antichrist makes himself knownat the beginning of the great trib which is preceeded by a great falling away